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Message: <blockquote data-quote="!DWolf" data-source="post: 8870087" data-attributes="member: 7026314">Imaging it as described, the dungeoneering game play loop seems really off: stiff and unnatural with lots of game terms in what should be a more casual conversation.In contrast here is my loop for dungeons from abomination vaults  (keep in mind I am usually playing theater of the mind and I don’t use VTTs):<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">I ask how they are opening the door/walking down the hall/whatever leads to the next area. I usually ask in a manner that assumes their standard order and operating procedure (“I assume you are checking for traps before you open the door?”).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">They may sense something about the next area (this is more common if they are moving down a hall). In that case I pause and let them reassess their actions (“as you approach the backside of the secret door you hear raised voices in the other room, are you going to continue with your plan to open the door?”)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">I describe the transition to the area and then the describe the area. (“you fling open the secret door with a crash. Inside is a twenty foot long and fifteen foot wide scriptorium with a closed door at the far end. Sitting on stools, working on books, are two ghouls looking quite startled.”)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Fights or social-fu usually happen here. Note that I have their exploration actions either SOP or because they just told me. (The poor ghouls died without ever getting a turn)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">I ask the characters what they are going to do to interact with the new area. I tend to resolve this one at a time in the order that the players speak up unless there is danger or a hazard or the characters are going to split up or I feel like it. (“GM: The ghouls are destroyed, you don’t here any noise from behind the closed door. WIZARD: I am going for the books. GM: Okay roll for it. Perception. WIZARD: 9. GM: you get distracted by a text with big words. ROGUE?…). If players transfer to a new area I go to step one.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Once everyone has a chance to act. I advance the state of the dungeon as necessary (“The door suddenly opens and a ghoul walks in carrying a damaged book, a little confused by the light”). I know the exploration actions because they just told me (not in those words of course but as suggested by the rules I assign the closest action to what they were doing).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Repeat from five.</li> </ol>But you absolutely can keep an eye out for danger while avoiding notice. That is not what Trap Finder does. I actually had this conversation with a player of mine. I asked him what he thought searching for traps was like and to demonstrate in the room we were in. He turned his head to the left and then to the right and said “Done.” That is not what searching a room for traps is! To properly search a room for traps (at least those that are hidden, remember if a trap doesn’t have a listed proficiency rank characters can notice it without searching) you are going to have to do things like check for trip wires with light sources or strings, check for pressure plates, even under rugs, look under tables for crossbows, check the ceiling for holes and loose bricks, closely examine the door handle and around the frame of the door, pour water in the floor to look for seams, etc. Another way to think of it is to envision soldiers clearing a minefield in a war movie: they are moving extremely slowly probing each inch of dirt, not just glancing around. What trap finder does is give you an almost supernatural sense of where traps/hazards are so you CAN detect traps just by glancing about (and it won’t detect treasure or things other than hazard’s).It’s actually a really good feat if you are running a lot of dungeons with intelligent enemies. Basically, it saves one or more actions (remember to move to a door, force open the door, and then stride again is three actions; with the feat you can stride twice and force open at any point during the movement for two actions) AND gives a bonus to do it AND that bonus stacks with Adrenaline Rush. A very simple, and nasty tactic for enemies is to simply close (and potentially lock, brace, or bar) doors and divide the PCs or buy time for reinforcements to arrive (a variant has them slam the door shut in a spellcasters face as a readied action causing their spell to fizzle) or to fight from behind a portcullis/barricade (the nastiest ones are on the tops of steep staircase where the enemy can shove the PCs off the stairs without exposing themselves or create kill zones between two portcullis). With this that whole class of tactic is much less effective.</blockquote>

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