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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zerovoid" data-source="post: 78308" data-attributes="member: 283">I still think charisma is a dump stat in 3e, and I have yet to see a convincing argument otherwise.  If you want to be good at social skills, you are better off putting points into your Intelligence than your Charisma, because of the way the skill point system is in 3e.  If you want to be REALLY good at social skills, then you need a high charisma and lots of skill ranks, but if you just want enough to get by, using Intelligence to get extra skill ranks is the way to go.Example:I play a dwarven cleric in a 25 pt buy campaign.  Normally, I try to put at least a 10 in charisma, but 25 pt buy just stretches my stats too thin, so I have an 8.  I try to play a low charisma, which is difficult for me, because usually I'm one of the people who acts as the driving force behind the party.  My stats, with the 4th level point going onto wisdom.Str 13, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 8.I have three skills maxed out, and 5th level:  Concentration, Craft( Armorsmithing), and Diplomacy.  Because I wanted my character to be a smith, Diplomacy is the skill I would drop if I had 10 Int, 10 Cha instead of 12 Int, 8 Cha.  I suppose I could have dropped by Con, but I wanted my dwarf to be tough, and even if I did reduce it, I would probably put the points in Wisdom.So, with 8 ranks in diplomacy, I have a total of 8 - 1(Cha) = +7.With 10 int and 10 cha I would have +0.In fact, my +7 is higher than most sorcerors would have despite their super high Cha, since diplomacy is a class skill for clerics.  The way the skill system is set up, skill ranks vastly outweigh ability bonuses, hence Charisma is a dump stat.  IMHO, the Leadership feat is the only good reason for most characters to have a high charisma.</blockquote>

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