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<blockquote data-quote="Lord Ipplepop" data-source="post: 5876145" data-attributes="member: 39914"><p>In a group I used to be a part of, our main DM ran just shy of Monty Haul. At 4th level, we decimated a young red dragon with very little loss to the party. The experienced players were getting a bit bored because the challenge was not there. The missions were decent and well thought out, they just weren't challenging.</p><p></p><p>I got a chance to DM for the group, and took them through a good, old-fashioned dungeon crawl. Unfortunately, they could only take so much in the dungeon with them. The players had to decide which of their possessions to get out of the wagons and saddlebags. when they finished the adventure and exited the dungeon, the horses were either dead or gone, the wagons were gone or burning, and all of their toys were toast. </p><p></p><p></p><p>As it turned out, while my character was standing guard over the gear, a band of orcs surprised him and took everything. The party- of course- showed up just in time to save him from death (cure lights at -7hp), but now, they had to deal with what they had,and the missions became more challenging.</p><p></p><p>Also, "monsters" do not want to die an more than players do. They will do anything, fair or unfair, to survive. They will cheat, they will attack from the shadows, they will ambush, they will use magic, they will fight 2 against 1"( or 3vs1 or worse). The best way to keep a player humble is to get their player to damned near dead. As long as you "play fair" and don't cheat them (ancient black dragon vs 5th level players), they have nowhere to complain.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lord Ipplepop, post: 5876145, member: 39914"] In a group I used to be a part of, our main DM ran just shy of Monty Haul. At 4th level, we decimated a young red dragon with very little loss to the party. The experienced players were getting a bit bored because the challenge was not there. The missions were decent and well thought out, they just weren't challenging. I got a chance to DM for the group, and took them through a good, old-fashioned dungeon crawl. Unfortunately, they could only take so much in the dungeon with them. The players had to decide which of their possessions to get out of the wagons and saddlebags. when they finished the adventure and exited the dungeon, the horses were either dead or gone, the wagons were gone or burning, and all of their toys were toast. As it turned out, while my character was standing guard over the gear, a band of orcs surprised him and took everything. The party- of course- showed up just in time to save him from death (cure lights at -7hp), but now, they had to deal with what they had,and the missions became more challenging. Also, "monsters" do not want to die an more than players do. They will do anything, fair or unfair, to survive. They will cheat, they will attack from the shadows, they will ambush, they will use magic, they will fight 2 against 1"( or 3vs1 or worse). The best way to keep a player humble is to get their player to damned near dead. As long as you "play fair" and don't cheat them (ancient black dragon vs 5th level players), they have nowhere to complain. [/QUOTE]
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