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My Players Didn't Like 5e :( Help Me Get Them Into It!!
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<blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6651789" data-attributes="member: 5834"><p>No, you're not crazy, especially if you DM. 5E is extremely friendly to the DM. Like you, I DM a lot. Though I enjoyed 3E/<em>Pathfinder</em> for years, I grew extremely weary of the prep time for the game. 5E cuts that prep time down substantially, while continuing to provide a very robust and customizable rule system allowing a DM to make fun, interesting, and challenging adventures. No more writing term papers to create encounters for high level PCs. Now you can whip them up in a short time and focus more on the story/plot component of the game. No more tracking an insane number of buffs and debuffs. It's all very fluid and easy to run.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Backgrounds are not required. They are customizable. I tell my players to write up their background and use the general format and limitations on additional skills and languages. This shouldn't in any way affect the game other than a chance to toss a few skills and abilities on from your background.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is a very real problem. My players barely care about gold now. There's nothing much to do with it unless you're a caster or enjoy role-playing it's use in other ways like being a lord or a businessman. It is up to the DM to offer those opportunities. Coin feels pretty pointless and is mostly used to purchase healing potions and armor for non-casters. Casters hoard gold. Some higher level spells require a high cost to use.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Feat system is less robust than <em>Pathfinder</em>/3E. Customization is less robust. New books might help. But five slots competing for stat points and feats means a less robust customization system. This is by design. If your characters like to customize, their only option is multiclassing along with feats. Even that isn't close to the robust system <em>Pathfinder</em>. Then again it isn't necessary to play the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not much mechanical support in the DMG. 5E leaves this up to the DM. It's like 1E or 2E. You make up what you think is important and decide the rest by circumstances and role-play. The main goal is to keep the game going and use the imagination to resolve it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I prefer a light rules system for everything but combat. I hated Intimidation, Diplomacy, and the like in 3E/<em>Pathfinder</em>. I want to decide things according to the fiction. So this is a huge plus in my book. I never liked the idea of a player being able to roll a die to decide everything. I despised Knowledge checks to determine something about every creature. Absolutely hated that mechanic. Glad it's gone. As a DM, I want a player's background to determine what they may know. I want them to at least come up with a great lie or a persuasive argument rather than roll a dice and say "I tell him whatever I need to tell him to trick him." This is a role-playing game, not a roll-playing game. I want to the player to invest in being a character even if it is the player explaining in his own voice what he is doing. I don't need the player to be a thespian, but I want him to be thinking of his character as a real person within a real world. Thus I expect him to utilize that magical evolved or God-given imagination we humans possess. It works better if exercised. This game is great exercise.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You can't migrate the simplicity and easy prep time into <em>Patfhinder</em>. That is one of the best features of 5E is how easy it is to run and build encounters. If you're the one DMing all the time, your players may not appreciate how much less work it is for you as a DM.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The power scale is much flatter. You can escalate it some with feats and magic items. This game is for making adventures where fighting an orc army at level 12 is still frightening and a single dragon can take on even a level 20 party. If you want characters that make such fights seem trivial, 5E is probably not the game for the group.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celtavian, post: 6651789, member: 5834"] No, you're not crazy, especially if you DM. 5E is extremely friendly to the DM. Like you, I DM a lot. Though I enjoyed 3E/[I]Pathfinder[/I] for years, I grew extremely weary of the prep time for the game. 5E cuts that prep time down substantially, while continuing to provide a very robust and customizable rule system allowing a DM to make fun, interesting, and challenging adventures. No more writing term papers to create encounters for high level PCs. Now you can whip them up in a short time and focus more on the story/plot component of the game. No more tracking an insane number of buffs and debuffs. It's all very fluid and easy to run. Backgrounds are not required. They are customizable. I tell my players to write up their background and use the general format and limitations on additional skills and languages. This shouldn't in any way affect the game other than a chance to toss a few skills and abilities on from your background. This is a very real problem. My players barely care about gold now. There's nothing much to do with it unless you're a caster or enjoy role-playing it's use in other ways like being a lord or a businessman. It is up to the DM to offer those opportunities. Coin feels pretty pointless and is mostly used to purchase healing potions and armor for non-casters. Casters hoard gold. Some higher level spells require a high cost to use. Feat system is less robust than [I]Pathfinder[/I]/3E. Customization is less robust. New books might help. But five slots competing for stat points and feats means a less robust customization system. This is by design. If your characters like to customize, their only option is multiclassing along with feats. Even that isn't close to the robust system [I]Pathfinder[/I]. Then again it isn't necessary to play the game. Not much mechanical support in the DMG. 5E leaves this up to the DM. It's like 1E or 2E. You make up what you think is important and decide the rest by circumstances and role-play. The main goal is to keep the game going and use the imagination to resolve it. I prefer a light rules system for everything but combat. I hated Intimidation, Diplomacy, and the like in 3E/[I]Pathfinder[/I]. I want to decide things according to the fiction. So this is a huge plus in my book. I never liked the idea of a player being able to roll a die to decide everything. I despised Knowledge checks to determine something about every creature. Absolutely hated that mechanic. Glad it's gone. As a DM, I want a player's background to determine what they may know. I want them to at least come up with a great lie or a persuasive argument rather than roll a dice and say "I tell him whatever I need to tell him to trick him." This is a role-playing game, not a roll-playing game. I want to the player to invest in being a character even if it is the player explaining in his own voice what he is doing. I don't need the player to be a thespian, but I want him to be thinking of his character as a real person within a real world. Thus I expect him to utilize that magical evolved or God-given imagination we humans possess. It works better if exercised. This game is great exercise. You can't migrate the simplicity and easy prep time into [I]Patfhinder[/I]. That is one of the best features of 5E is how easy it is to run and build encounters. If you're the one DMing all the time, your players may not appreciate how much less work it is for you as a DM. The power scale is much flatter. You can escalate it some with feats and magic items. This game is for making adventures where fighting an orc army at level 12 is still frightening and a single dragon can take on even a level 20 party. If you want characters that make such fights seem trivial, 5E is probably not the game for the group. [/QUOTE]
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