My players have just got Discern Location - What do I do?

[Herremann the Wise]

Hi Everyone,

The Sorcerer/Archmage in the group has decided to get Discern Location as her first 8th level spell and I'm wondering what the hell the party are going to do to me.
I thought they would go for some big beefy offensive spell but no, they have to choose this silly little divination. All the secrets in the game can now be potentially exposed - I suppose I should have seen it coming but I'm dirty on them anyway.

This is the first time as a DM I have had to handle this. How have you guys defended your secrets against this terrible evil spell? Is there anything I can do to at least keep some tricks up the sleeve - it is neither feasible nor plausible that all the bad guys have mind blanks active or have deities willing to intercede for them?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[SubMensa]

*disclaimer: I've never had to deal with this spell as either a DM or PC*

How do you protect your plot points now from the terrible scry buff teleport combo. The same tactics should apply at least in theory.

1) Misinformation is your friend. While the PCs are tracking down Vlad the vampire the real villain is free to plot their delicious destruction.

2) Extradimensional spaces are your friend.

The spell reveals the name of the creature or object’s location (place, name, business name, building name, or the like), community, county (or similar political division), country, continent, and the plane of existence where the target lies.

What do you mean it's in a pocket dimension with no name?!?!?

4) From the spell itself:

...a mind blank spell or the direct intervention of a deity keeps you from learning the exact location of a single individual or object.

3) Couple the above with the trouble of

...you must have seen the creature or have some item that once belonged to it. To find an object, you must have touched it at least once.

Also at the level where those type of spells become available maybe the adventures could become more political in nature i.e. convince country A to not attack country B. That way there is no central item or person that the adventure hinges on. Instead of the "find the McGuffin, beat up BBEG" that earlier adventures thrive on. I'm not knocking the play style, just offering an alternative.

Over in the rules forum they probably have more alternatives for you, I'd ask there as well. Best of luck in keeping your group challenged.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Simply have your bad guys start using it against the players. Clever players will then come up with all sorts of tricks to avoid it, which you can then appropriate.

The trick to DMing is tricking your players into doing your work for you.

 

[Piratecat]

At the suggestion of the player, we added a slight xp cost (200 xp) to keep it from being overused. Even before that, though, it wasn't much of a problem. And nothing freaks the PCs out more than when they use Discern Location on the BBEG and they learn "In your parent's house."

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

And nothing freaks the PCs out more than when they use Discern Location on the BBEG and they learn "In your parent's house."

Except perhaps: "He's standing right behind you!!!" as the BBEG teleports in (having just used discern location on the PCs).

 

[Planesdragon]

This is the first time as a DM I have had to handle this. How have you guys defended your secrets against this terrible evil spell? Is there anything I can do to at least keep some tricks up the sleeve - it is neither feasible nor plausible that all the bad guys have mind blanks active or have deities willing to intercede for them?

Point the first: DO NOT nerf your player's abilities. Discren Location is one of the more creative spells, and you should use it to curtail your players deeper into the game so they can get more involved in roleplaying.

Point the second: read the spell description, second paragraph. Olgar quoted it--the PC can't find what they've never touched or whom they've never seen. So most of your secrets, unless they're "hidden in the open", are perfectly safe.

Point the third: plan your adventures expecitng the PCs to use this spell, since you KNOW that they will have it and can cast it many times per day. Have them track down a murdererous 20th level sorceror who's gated to another plane, after killing an innocent and leaving only a scrap of cloth, to keep a dire prophecy from coming true. (To be especially nasty, let the NPC time-travel to escape... but allow Discern Location to note the time.)

 

[Liquidsabre]

Point the first: DO NOT nerf your player's abilities. Discren Location is one of the more creative spells, and you should use it to curtail your players deeper into the game so they can get more involved in roleplaying.

I agree wholeheartedly on this point. Your player should be rewarded for taking a non-offense spell (plus being a Sorcerer to boot!) as their first 8th level spell.

What this means is that the PC is less interested in just blasting things with their highest level spells and instead wishes to track down enemies/villains and plot-points in your campaign. You should consider this spell selection a compliment I would think as it allows the PCs to delve even deeper into the mire that is the myriad of plot-threads working behind the scenes that the PCs will inevitably bumble into and quickly get over their heads. USe it to your advantage as bes tas you can, the focal point for major plot-threads are important enough (and powerful enough) that they will have such defenses invariably up and running. The relative small-fry will only have such stuffs if they are undercover so-to-speak and on a recon-spy mission. All the others will be are plot-lines that lead to the BBE plot-center (or criss-cross, or however complicated you make such things).

My only tip would be to make your plots a wee bit deeper, have back-up plot threads (organizations usually) you can toss in to fill in potential holes in the plot thread later (such as a particular organization that the PCs uncover that move many ellicit goods within the port city but don't actually ship it but the PCs investigate into who does the shipping, a lead you didn't consider atm <insert prefab group here>).

Best of luck with it!

 

[MerakSpielman]

It's a shift of focus. Finding the person or object ceases to be the Problem That Must Be Solved.

Be aware that your PCs have access to this spell. Expect them to use it. Hell, make plots where using Discern Location is absolutely essential. There is literally no other way to solve the quest. Create adventures where that Sorcerer is continually having to decide whether to burn spell slots casting it or save them for combat. Make your PCs expend their resources - each Discern Location they cast is one fewer Sunburst or Polar Ray they have when they are confronting the enemy.

 

[Steverooo]

Anti-magic spheres.
Amulets of Proof Against Detection and Location.
Sheets of lead or gold.
Moving targets - "Fedifensor is 3 miles south of Luxor, on the road from Karnax." Unless the PCs teleport immediately, Fed with pass through Luxor, and move on, being elsewhere when they teleport.
Flying creatures - "The Dragon is 681' above the town of Scarfangle, Brower County, in the Hornwood."
Planehoppers - "Asmodeus is in the Nine... just entered the 666th layer of the Abyss!"
Gates 0 See above.
Contingency - "Whenever I am scried, activate Teleport Without Error/Greater Teleport/Gate (etc.) and bring me back here to {secret location). Subject will always appear to be there.

I'm sure you can come up with other such ruses, when needed, but (again), don't always be nerfing this spell. It ought to succeed most of the time.

 

[I'm A Banana]

First thing to note is that you no longer can depend on finding the location of the BBEG to be the problem...which is okay, if you plan for it. They'll know where everyone whose lock of hair they possess is located, with a sorcerer, at least four times per day (probably more).

They know where.

One of the single most powerful DM tools against divinations is the Red Herring. Say, the BBEG committed a murder, but left part of a monster laying around so that it seemed the monster did it. The PC's find the monster part, but not the true clue (unless they've got astronomical Search skills). They use discern location, scry-teleport-intiative.

Only they kill the wrong guy.

So while the monsters are trying to extract their vengeance for the pointless murder of one of their own (perhaps not specifically on the PC's -- the people who hired the PC's, a group known for supporting them, simply the town or bar that they frequent, etc. are all likely targets, especially if the monsters are generally weak), the PC's must still uncover the real killer as he kills again.

The key, of course, will be in the legwork...either they predict the place he's likely to strike (requiring divinations or good Int checks to detect a pattern) so they can see him in action, or they interview eyewitnesses to find the real culprit (requiring enchantments or good Cha checks to convince scared townsfolk to speak)...while at the same time fighting off minions and monsters...

Let the spell be useful, eventually (in this case, they can still use it as it was intended, once they found out whodunnit). But make them work for it...

The 'make them use it' suggestion is also a very good idea...make sure the spell is the only way to detect where the person goes (he looses them with illusion, and nobody else has seen him, etc).

That's just one example; there's others. Maybe if we knew more about the specific situation we could give some specific advice?