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My powergamer players wants to be a bard.
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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 6395298" data-attributes="member: 2525"><p>It was your analogy. I hate analogies in situations where they are unnecessary, like this one. You insisted on it, so I pointed out a way to cheat in that analogy. If you don't like the analogy now, then perhaps we should focus on talking about D&D instead of your stupid analogy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I was talking about using loopholes. You are free to talk about something else all you want, but I am still going to focus on use of loopholes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course they are both loopholes. They are two of the most well known ones ever in the game. You can't just decide to redefine what is or is not a loophole because it harms your position...deal with the issue at hand. Cleave was never supposed to function that way with a bunch of rats, but as written it did, resulting in an abusive result. That is a loophole. </p><p></p><p><a href="http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Pun-Pun" target="_blank">Pun Pun</a> is another example of a loophole in the rules. </p><p></p><p>These things really existed, even if you didn't use them, even if you think they are stupid, even if your own DM wouldn't allow them, loopholes existed and were cheats. And that is what we are talking about. If you don't want to talk about those things, nobody is twisting your arm to do so. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The original version involved you controlling the summoned creature so there wasn't much choice. The actual AD&D order of events were:</p><p></p><p></p><p>1. Use a Candle of Invocation to summon a efreet</p><p>2. Use a charge from the Rod of Beguiling to make him your friend (no saving throw)</p><p>3. Use your first wish</p><p>4. Use your second wish to recharge the Rod</p><p>5. Use your third wish to create a Candle of Invocation.</p><p>6. Repeat</p><p></p><p></p><p>We were talking about rules as written, and by the rules as written those wishes worked. It was a loophole, it needed to be closed, and you denying it's existence doesn't help your credibility as for over 20 years people have known about it and talked about it and established it repeatedly as a real thing that was indeed a loophole. I don't think anyone realistically thinks "wishes are risky" is a good, rationale check on INFINITE WISHES. The rules as written gave several examples of wishes that would in fact work. Such lists included an increase to an ability score, or level. Those wishes, in the rules as written, were supposed to function fine. So, infinite ability scores for instance would work fine by the rules as written, for this loophole. That's a problem.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 6395298, member: 2525"] It was your analogy. I hate analogies in situations where they are unnecessary, like this one. You insisted on it, so I pointed out a way to cheat in that analogy. If you don't like the analogy now, then perhaps we should focus on talking about D&D instead of your stupid analogy. I was talking about using loopholes. You are free to talk about something else all you want, but I am still going to focus on use of loopholes. Of course they are both loopholes. They are two of the most well known ones ever in the game. You can't just decide to redefine what is or is not a loophole because it harms your position...deal with the issue at hand. Cleave was never supposed to function that way with a bunch of rats, but as written it did, resulting in an abusive result. That is a loophole. [URL="http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Pun-Pun"]Pun Pun[/URL] is another example of a loophole in the rules. These things really existed, even if you didn't use them, even if you think they are stupid, even if your own DM wouldn't allow them, loopholes existed and were cheats. And that is what we are talking about. If you don't want to talk about those things, nobody is twisting your arm to do so. The original version involved you controlling the summoned creature so there wasn't much choice. The actual AD&D order of events were: 1. Use a Candle of Invocation to summon a efreet 2. Use a charge from the Rod of Beguiling to make him your friend (no saving throw) 3. Use your first wish 4. Use your second wish to recharge the Rod 5. Use your third wish to create a Candle of Invocation. 6. Repeat We were talking about rules as written, and by the rules as written those wishes worked. It was a loophole, it needed to be closed, and you denying it's existence doesn't help your credibility as for over 20 years people have known about it and talked about it and established it repeatedly as a real thing that was indeed a loophole. I don't think anyone realistically thinks "wishes are risky" is a good, rationale check on INFINITE WISHES. The rules as written gave several examples of wishes that would in fact work. Such lists included an increase to an ability score, or level. Those wishes, in the rules as written, were supposed to function fine. So, infinite ability scores for instance would work fine by the rules as written, for this loophole. That's a problem. [/QUOTE]
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