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<blockquote data-quote="ferratus" data-source="post: 5416416" data-attributes="member: 55966">The&nbsp; Rules Cyclopedia actually has a good start on what you do with your&nbsp; stronghold, how you draw income from it, what your expenses will be, how&nbsp; much a building costs, and how strong your walls are when you are&nbsp; attacked.&nbsp; The more widely played &quot;Advanced&quot; versions of D&amp;D didn't&nbsp; have this information though, which is largely what I was complaining&nbsp; about.&nbsp; Basic D&amp;D also treats it as a sideline to your adventuring&nbsp; though, rather than its focus.I'm not too worried about finding&nbsp; rules to crib for the stronghold and realms management aspect of the&nbsp; game, because I have the Birthright boxed set which should be a good&nbsp; baseline, though some of the rules systems need significant tweaking.&nbsp; Because&nbsp; the PC Lord is receiving the benefits to his own power by deploying a&nbsp; follower to advance his interests or solve one of his problems.&nbsp;&nbsp; What&nbsp; is XP except the accumulation of experience that in turn means personal&nbsp; power?&nbsp;&nbsp; If the game is based on how you deploy your minions, manage&nbsp; your realm, winning battles, and intrigue... why wouldn't you give XP&nbsp; for how you deployed your minion?If this is just supposed to be a&nbsp; sideline, why bother with having many rules for running a keep at all?&nbsp;&nbsp; This is why followers and building keeps were largely tossed aside in&nbsp; 3e, 4e, and Pathfinder in favour of high-level dungeon crawling and&nbsp; killing gods and demon lords.I'm not sure if that actually works though.&nbsp; If you&nbsp; cause the henchman's death, you generally don't get another one because&nbsp; you've caused their death by adventuring with them.&nbsp; As well, since the&nbsp; module is designed to challenge you, any henchmen you have are going to&nbsp; end up dying from the monsters and traps only you are high enough level&nbsp; to handle.Plus as well, if you get too many followers and&nbsp; hirelings along, it starts to slow down combat a lot, even worse than&nbsp; 4e's combats if you get enough of them.&nbsp; If everyone has to have an&nbsp; attack and move, and you have 4 followers for each PC along with you,&nbsp; that increases the amount of actions per round from 4 to 16.&nbsp;&nbsp; But if&nbsp; you aren't going to have your followers along with you on an adventure,&nbsp; what are you using them for?&nbsp; 3e's Leadership ability was the worst,&nbsp; because you had a henchmen who was 1 level lower than you (usually a&nbsp; cleric) which effectively doubled (or more) of your power.&nbsp; The rest of&nbsp; the followers however, were NPC class shlubs that didn't have any role&nbsp; during the adventure.&nbsp; They just hung out at your castle.So I&nbsp; want to bring back the playing style and goals of Battlesystem and&nbsp; Birthright for my upper tier adventures.&nbsp; I want to do it in such a way&nbsp; that the knights, knaves, saints and occultists of the party will&nbsp; continue to grow in power and influence.That's just flippant.&nbsp; You might as well say that the guide for mass&nbsp; combat in D&amp;D is Sun Tzu's Art of War (or Machiavelli's Art of War&nbsp; for that matter).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ferratus, post: 5416416, member: 55966"] The Rules Cyclopedia actually has a good start on what you do with your stronghold, how you draw income from it, what your expenses will be, how much a building costs, and how strong your walls are when you are attacked. The more widely played "Advanced" versions of D&D didn't have this information though, which is largely what I was complaining about. Basic D&D also treats it as a sideline to your adventuring though, rather than its focus. I'm not too worried about finding rules to crib for the stronghold and realms management aspect of the game, because I have the Birthright boxed set which should be a good baseline, though some of the rules systems need significant tweaking. Because the PC Lord is receiving the benefits to his own power by deploying a follower to advance his interests or solve one of his problems. What is XP except the accumulation of experience that in turn means personal power? If the game is based on how you deploy your minions, manage your realm, winning battles, and intrigue... why wouldn't you give XP for how you deployed your minion? If this is just supposed to be a sideline, why bother with having many rules for running a keep at all? This is why followers and building keeps were largely tossed aside in 3e, 4e, and Pathfinder in favour of high-level dungeon crawling and killing gods and demon lords. I'm not sure if that actually works though. If you cause the henchman's death, you generally don't get another one because you've caused their death by adventuring with them. As well, since the module is designed to challenge you, any henchmen you have are going to end up dying from the monsters and traps only you are high enough level to handle. Plus as well, if you get too many followers and hirelings along, it starts to slow down combat a lot, even worse than 4e's combats if you get enough of them. If everyone has to have an attack and move, and you have 4 followers for each PC along with you, that increases the amount of actions per round from 4 to 16. But if you aren't going to have your followers along with you on an adventure, what are you using them for? 3e's Leadership ability was the worst, because you had a henchmen who was 1 level lower than you (usually a cleric) which effectively doubled (or more) of your power. The rest of the followers however, were NPC class shlubs that didn't have any role during the adventure. They just hung out at your castle. So I want to bring back the playing style and goals of Battlesystem and Birthright for my upper tier adventures. I want to do it in such a way that the knights, knaves, saints and occultists of the party will continue to grow in power and influence. That's just flippant. You might as well say that the guide for mass combat in D&D is Sun Tzu's Art of War (or Machiavelli's Art of War for that matter). [/QUOTE]

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