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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 8069474" data-attributes="member: 6795602">My biggest pet peeve in the monk discussion is that the monk often has so many ways of granting the party advantage and none of these are ever factored into DOR discussions.2nd pet peeve is that the monk ac is actually not bad. Typically starts at 16.  Which is better than a rogues and equal to a great weapon fighters. It scales up to 18 a little slower but ends up in the same place.The monk downside In defense is hp total and hyper specific damage reduction abilities. Missiles and dex save defenses are good but nowhere near universal which has the tendency to make him feel much weaker in a typical encounter.I think part of the monks bad rap is that they are kind of bad from levels 11+.  Which I think everyone is in agreement with.</blockquote>