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<blockquote data-quote="Undrave" data-source="post: 8069844" data-attributes="member: 7015698">Another thing that doesn't help the Monk: once you picked your subclass that's it for your choice. Aside from I think the terrible 4 Element Monk, you subclass is pretty much it as far as build options. Even a Champion Fighter has a choice of fighting style. And don't get me started on the Battlemaster! It can go full Sword and Board, Defensive and Goading Attack to keep enemies on him, you can make a Charismatic Archer with Rally, or even an INT based Archer with the new skill maneuvers, or an agile Rapier user with Dueling style and the Riposte maneuver, maybe also CHA with the new skill maneuvers, or a big two-hander guy with Menacing Attack and Tripping Attack. All that without taking Race or feats into account! All monks end up with the same stat lineup and if they're the same subclass they have all the same features and end up really samey. There's no room for a Jujitsu grappling Monk so that's a real shame, because you have no incentive to invest in STR and no class features that care. I think if their unarmored AC didn't rely on both DEX and WIS we'd see more variety. Like if their AC was DEX+Proficiency bonus. You could have a STR/DEX grappler with bad saves, or a Mystical Swift Attack with DEX/WIS with powerful save. I've actually heard there's a whole uncomfortably racist undertone to the concept of 'Asian warriors are lithe and agile and Western warrior are burly and strong&quot; despite martial arts also demanding powerful muscle (which, admittedly, is just a failing of the DnD STR vs DEX paradigm). I'm not Asian myself, but that's what I heard (so take it with a grain of salt).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Undrave, post: 8069844, member: 7015698"] Another thing that doesn't help the Monk: once you picked your subclass that's it for your choice. Aside from I think the terrible 4 Element Monk, you subclass is pretty much it as far as build options. Even a Champion Fighter has a choice of fighting style. And don't get me started on the Battlemaster! It can go full Sword and Board, Defensive and Goading Attack to keep enemies on him, you can make a Charismatic Archer with Rally, or even an INT based Archer with the new skill maneuvers, or an agile Rapier user with Dueling style and the Riposte maneuver, maybe also CHA with the new skill maneuvers, or a big two-hander guy with Menacing Attack and Tripping Attack. All that without taking Race or feats into account! All monks end up with the same stat lineup and if they're the same subclass they have all the same features and end up really samey. There's no room for a Jujitsu grappling Monk so that's a real shame, because you have no incentive to invest in STR and no class features that care. I think if their unarmored AC didn't rely on both DEX and WIS we'd see more variety. Like if their AC was DEX+Proficiency bonus. You could have a STR/DEX grappler with bad saves, or a Mystical Swift Attack with DEX/WIS with powerful save. I've actually heard there's a whole uncomfortably racist undertone to the concept of 'Asian warriors are lithe and agile and Western warrior are burly and strong" despite martial arts also demanding powerful muscle (which, admittedly, is just a failing of the DnD STR vs DEX paradigm). I'm not Asian myself, but that's what I heard (so take it with a grain of salt). [/QUOTE]

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