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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8070069" data-attributes="member: 72555">Monk baseline, resource-free damage, is worse than an EB+AB warlock who uses an 8 hour buff spell (where they can recharge in an hour) at level5+.   2d10+8+2d6 (26) > 2d8+1d6+12(24.5)The monk gets an additional 7.5/level/rest damage that has to hit (37.5 at 5) which stacks with baseline, while the warlock gets 2x8d6 aoe (28x2 fireball, or equivalent 3rd level spell) which does not.The 3 free invocations and cha-SAD and range and ability to sacrifice damage (slots) for utility spells of the warlock beat monk utility two ways from sunday.It costs the equivalent of 15 can-misss damage at level 5 for 1 round.  And as many DMs play dodge as visible, it just redirects damage to your allies.It costs both the ki and your bonus action attack.If you compare Hypnotic Pattern to stun-spam on multiple enemies, pattern comes out ahead.Basically unless you are fighting a legendary resistance critter does stun-spam start looking great in the 1-10 range.  And gere you are just throwing your damage into the hope of soaking a 1 or 2 legendary resists.  The foe has to be legendary, not have an auto-win con save, but not be so tough that the party is going to only fight it today (otherwise, daily casters have more slots and higher DCs).Sure.But let us take the weakest of BM - a twf BM.  At 6 she does 3d8+12 to the monk's 2d8+1d6+12 at-will.The BM has 4d8 maneurver dice, the monk 6 ki.  The BM can turn thise dice into a 2d8+4 riposte, a miss into a 1d8+4 hit, a crit into a +2d8 damage and save, or just a 1d8 damage and save.Save DCs are higher in the BM (based off primary attack stat).  BM AC is higher at 1-10 (either heavy armor, or medium+dex, or even light).BM baseline action surge and second wind is big (2d8+8 swing damage, 2/3 of a level 6s ki damage).  BM dice are damage and status effects, and she has 4 of them.And BM has xbe/ss and pam/gwm builds that are considered much stronger than the TWF build.Monk subclasses are addicted to burning Ki, so they provide breadth not depth.   Open hand is an exception, but even there you have to ki-flurry to impose easy to defeat saving throw conditions.</blockquote>

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