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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 8070207" data-attributes="member: 6795602">I've marked through everything that doesn't relate to dex and wis focus for the monk.&nbsp; That point was standalone and simply stated that being locked into 2 stats that are good for skills is just as good as having flexibility to build dex and wis/int/cha.&nbsp; Let's explore why.Case 1.&nbsp; Assume the player is not trying to optimize skills to fit into a party.&nbsp; Then the rogue is just as likely as the monk to have skills that the party already has built for.Case 2.&nbsp; Assume the player is trying to optimize skills to fit into the party.&nbsp; Then the monk is simply not chosen unless the party needs dex/wis skills.&nbsp; Thus, in every event where the monk is chosen - the skill bonus from his stats will be just as beneficial as the rogues skill bonus from his stats.From level 1-4 a rogue has a +2 bonus in 2 skills and proficiency in 1 additional skill.&nbsp; At level 6 the rogue has +3 bonus to 4 skills and proficiency in 1 additional skill.The shadow monk from level 3+ gives himself and the party a +10 bonus to 1 skill.Reliable talent is great but it's not achieved until after the level 1-10 range we are looking at.So essentially we are looking at +2-3 to 2-4 skills vs +10 in 1 skill for the whole party.&nbsp; I think a good argument can be made that the +10 to a single skill for the whole party is actually better for the level 1-10 range than what the rogue gets.&nbsp; It's not clearly in either builds favor - but it's at least in the realm of being debatable which is better.I agree the monk is not a &quot;skill monkey&quot;.&nbsp; You don't need to be a skill monkey to add alot of value at skills.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 8070207, member: 6795602"] I've marked through everything that doesn't relate to dex and wis focus for the monk. That point was standalone and simply stated that being locked into 2 stats that are good for skills is just as good as having flexibility to build dex and wis/int/cha. Let's explore why. Case 1. Assume the player is not trying to optimize skills to fit into a party. Then the rogue is just as likely as the monk to have skills that the party already has built for. Case 2. Assume the player is trying to optimize skills to fit into the party. Then the monk is simply not chosen unless the party needs dex/wis skills. Thus, in every event where the monk is chosen - the skill bonus from his stats will be just as beneficial as the rogues skill bonus from his stats. From level 1-4 a rogue has a +2 bonus in 2 skills and proficiency in 1 additional skill. At level 6 the rogue has +3 bonus to 4 skills and proficiency in 1 additional skill. The shadow monk from level 3+ gives himself and the party a +10 bonus to 1 skill. Reliable talent is great but it's not achieved until after the level 1-10 range we are looking at. So essentially we are looking at +2-3 to 2-4 skills vs +10 in 1 skill for the whole party. I think a good argument can be made that the +10 to a single skill for the whole party is actually better for the level 1-10 range than what the rogue gets. It's not clearly in either builds favor - but it's at least in the realm of being debatable which is better. I agree the monk is not a "skill monkey". You don't need to be a skill monkey to add alot of value at skills. [/QUOTE]

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