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My Response to the "Monk Sucks" thread
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<blockquote data-quote="Undrave" data-source="post: 8070338" data-attributes="member: 7015698"><p>1. Unless the tavern has a weapons locker, the real reason you're not using your favoured weapon here is so you don't kill anyone. a Fighter could probably improvise a club out of a table leg and still be able to do better than the natural 1 dmg of bare fists. </p><p></p><p>2. Yes that happens at least once in a while. If it happens repeatedly, your DM just wants you to die because nobody's getting their long rest on.</p><p></p><p>3. Unarmed I can see, but there are ceremonial armors so why not? And if naughty word hits the fan it's probably possible to get some kind of weapon in that kind of environment, like from a guard.</p><p></p><p>4. That happens yeah. Not all the time, but it's nice to have a monk... or a caster that doesn't need components to cast... Or a druid. </p><p></p><p>5. That's the same damn thing as 2. </p><p></p><p>6. Augh. Not a fan of that. </p><p></p><p>7. and 8. are basically the same thing, and if your Fighter isn't at their peak, or at least doesn't have a good weapon handy, then your plan was lame from the start. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To be fair, the Lizardfolk aren't in the PHB, so they aren't on my radar most of the time. And how does Bite interact with Martial Arts? Would you still be able to use DEX for it? If it does and you grab a shield... you need to use STR now because your Martial Arts benefit go out the window. Do you have good STR? </p><p></p><p>Aside from races with natural AC or natural weapon, all the races end up playing Monk very similarly. Especially if you only have the PHB. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's good, there's no denying it... but it's ONE skill, so it's not exactly a 'skill monkey', it's just a good specialist. And it is fuelled by your combat resource, meaning that if you use that stealth and get into a fight, you're 2 Ki points down... </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Neat! </p><p></p><p>AC 15 at level 5 is generally considered low... And your Stun DC is 13, so that's gonna be rare that your grappled target will be also stunned...Especially as the target that would be good to grapple (I know grappling them doesn't take up any of your ressources when you do it, but it does mean you can't take advantage of your full monk speed anymore, and you had to make some trade off at char gen) would usually be ones with tons of HP that could be whittled down by focus fire at advantage... thus high CON characters... or maybe they're hard to touch in the first place, meaning you might have trouble grabbing them in the first place because your DEX is only +3... How well would the Tortle version work at level 1 and 2 without feat support? </p><p></p><p>It looks fun, but not as smooth as it first appears... I'm not sure how it would compare in terms of efficiency to a monk that just beats people up instead. But it certainly shows that Open Hand is the best Monk Subclass if you can pull off this kind of shenanigans. </p><p></p><p>Still wish there was a proper grappler subclass with its own special locks... but since DnD is filled with enemies that are too big for a medium creature to grapple, they probably think it would be too limited :/</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Undrave, post: 8070338, member: 7015698"] 1. Unless the tavern has a weapons locker, the real reason you're not using your favoured weapon here is so you don't kill anyone. a Fighter could probably improvise a club out of a table leg and still be able to do better than the natural 1 dmg of bare fists. 2. Yes that happens at least once in a while. If it happens repeatedly, your DM just wants you to die because nobody's getting their long rest on. 3. Unarmed I can see, but there are ceremonial armors so why not? And if naughty word hits the fan it's probably possible to get some kind of weapon in that kind of environment, like from a guard. 4. That happens yeah. Not all the time, but it's nice to have a monk... or a caster that doesn't need components to cast... Or a druid. 5. That's the same damn thing as 2. 6. Augh. Not a fan of that. 7. and 8. are basically the same thing, and if your Fighter isn't at their peak, or at least doesn't have a good weapon handy, then your plan was lame from the start. To be fair, the Lizardfolk aren't in the PHB, so they aren't on my radar most of the time. And how does Bite interact with Martial Arts? Would you still be able to use DEX for it? If it does and you grab a shield... you need to use STR now because your Martial Arts benefit go out the window. Do you have good STR? Aside from races with natural AC or natural weapon, all the races end up playing Monk very similarly. Especially if you only have the PHB. It's good, there's no denying it... but it's ONE skill, so it's not exactly a 'skill monkey', it's just a good specialist. And it is fuelled by your combat resource, meaning that if you use that stealth and get into a fight, you're 2 Ki points down... Neat! AC 15 at level 5 is generally considered low... And your Stun DC is 13, so that's gonna be rare that your grappled target will be also stunned...Especially as the target that would be good to grapple (I know grappling them doesn't take up any of your ressources when you do it, but it does mean you can't take advantage of your full monk speed anymore, and you had to make some trade off at char gen) would usually be ones with tons of HP that could be whittled down by focus fire at advantage... thus high CON characters... or maybe they're hard to touch in the first place, meaning you might have trouble grabbing them in the first place because your DEX is only +3... How well would the Tortle version work at level 1 and 2 without feat support? It looks fun, but not as smooth as it first appears... I'm not sure how it would compare in terms of efficiency to a monk that just beats people up instead. But it certainly shows that Open Hand is the best Monk Subclass if you can pull off this kind of shenanigans. Still wish there was a proper grappler subclass with its own special locks... but since DnD is filled with enemies that are too big for a medium creature to grapple, they probably think it would be too limited :/ [/QUOTE]
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