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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8070501" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Sorry for the massive post, I was busy yesterday and catching up was hard.Sure, I think Stunning Strike is "fine" but I have never once argued it is the key defining aspect of the monk. It is a nice ability, nothing more.Oh, I know, but I think it also makes a good point though. The Crusher and Slasher feats are going to really shift how monks are seen, I think. The only other classes that can do both slashing and bludgeoning damage effectively are dual-wielders or PAM, meaning there is an extra feat involved. But, Monks will be able to use them to (at-will with bonus action punch) reduce an enemies speed by 10, and push them back 5, allowing for a free disengage. That is going to be a lot of extra control on the monk.And, it came from designing a feat they could use. Most items and feats are designed for either fighters or wizards, very few feats or magic items exist that are best on Druids or Monks, so creating options that let them shine brighter will close up that gap.Also losing to warlock in utility and at-will damageSword and Board Fighter -> 21Greatsword Fighter with no Feat -> 24Totem Barbarian with no Feat -> 25Paladins (same damage as Fighter, has weaker utility spells)Rogues -> 18So, this isn't exactly a startling revelation, EB+AB+Hex is high damage, the only builds that get close with "at-will" damage are Rangers using Hunter's Mark, PAM fighters (25.5) and Zealot Barbarians.I guess it depends on what you want from the Dodge action. Do you want to take no damage, or do you want to waste the enemies attack. If you want to take no damage, them attacking an ally is a similiar result. But, if you feel the DM ignoring you while you dodge is a problem, that seems to be on the DM. Again, sure, spells are great. Monks aren't spellcasters though, and there is a fundamental difference in the intent of Stunning Strike vs a save spell like Hypnotic Pattern. Hypnotic Pattern is being used to take some group of enemies out of the fight, even if half the enemies succeed in their saves, the spell is a success. It is also a 3rd level daily ability. The Monk's Stunning strike barrage (spending multiple ki to get one target to fail) is meant to take a single enemy out of the fight, and is recoverable on a short rest. And, it might come to pass that they only need to spend 1 ki to pull it off, but if the enemy succeeds once, they still have to succeed at least two more times. That is a big difference.Interesting you chose level 6, a spot where the fighter gains an extra feat so you could have the dual-wielding feat. Back level 5 your fighters damage was 3d6+12 (22.5) or 3d8+9 (21.5) both of which were lower than the monks (24.5), heck, even the difference you list is pretty small the BM is only doing 25.5, a single point better. I have no idea how you think the Fighter's AC is better across the board. Light Armor with the Feat is 17, same as the Monk. Medium Armor is likely a Breastplate, so also 17 same as the monk. The only way you are getting superior is to have half-plate or full plate (18 and 19 respectively) And since you claimed 1 through 10, the monk is going to reach 18 AC by 8, and they had the same 16 AC as your dual-wielder at level 1 (actually, with light armor you would have started with leather, giving you an AC 14 and inferior to the Monk) Overall, I'm not trying to say the Battlemaster is weak, but some of these arguments seem to be not taking into account just where the monk actually stands.But if the argument is "Monks are weak because Fighters can get magical platemail" when magic items are not assumed part of the balance, is that something we should fix by fixing the monk, or by giving the monk items to increase AC? If the problem with monk damage is more than they don't have access to Great Weapon Master, a feat generally considered overpowered to a degree, is the fix to increase monk damage or to give them access to an equivalent feat? When again, feats were not a considered part of class balance during the design process. The issue seems to be less that the monk was poorly designed, and more that when the designed all the extra bells and whistles to make people more powerful, they forgot to add some whistles for the monk. Which means we need to focus on homebrewing Magic Items and Feats, not Monks.Does the Defender take attunement? I didn't bother to check since it never shows up in my game. (I don't give out many magical items actually) But, fine, drop the cloak and be two points under. Or, like I suggested, make the bracers not cost an attunement slot since they have zero reason to take up one.If you think a fighter with two legendary magical items for AC is "nerfed" that might explain a few things.What massive drop in DPR? All of the DPR comparisons have been with a monk who does not use Flurry of Blows. A Shadow Monk using Pass without a Trace is no worse for damage than an Eldritch Knight casting Shield, or a Battlemaster using precise attack.</blockquote>

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