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<blockquote data-quote="see" data-source="post: 8070952" data-attributes="member: 10531">Yes, if you make house rules to benefit the monk, the monk can keep up with other classes. That's the same as saying that in the game as published, the monk is an inferior class.First, my forbearance in not calling you out on your lack of rigor in accounting for actual magic item availability in the example you authored wasn't actually an invitation for you to invent lies about what I'm thinking.Second, a +3 shield isn't a legendary item, it's a very rare item, which means you were comparing a monk with a legendary (defender), two rare (bracers and ring), and one uncommon (cloak) to a fighter with one legendary and one very rare.Third, by the time you've dropped, say, the ring to actually get under the attunement limit, the monk's dropped two AC behind the fighter.&nbsp; So, in your chosen comparison, we can drop the fighter to +2 items.&nbsp; Thus the monk needs three items (1 legendary/1 rare/1 uncommon) to match a fighter with two items (1 very rare/1 rare). Give the fighter a cloak (1 uncommon) and move the fighter's armor back up to legendary for an exact commonality match with the defender, and have the fighter be ahead by 2 on AC, plus having two attunement &quot;slots&quot; open to the monk's zero.In any case, the point again is that the monk lags. The debate clearly isn't whether or not the monk sucks, it's whether the monk's sucking should be fixed by revising the class, adding feats, changing magic items, or something else.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="see, post: 8070952, member: 10531"] Yes, if you make house rules to benefit the monk, the monk can keep up with other classes. That's the same as saying that in the game as published, the monk is an inferior class. First, my forbearance in not calling you out on your lack of rigor in accounting for actual magic item availability in the example you authored wasn't actually an invitation for you to invent lies about what I'm thinking. Second, a +3 shield [I]isn't[/I] a legendary item, it's a very rare item, which means you were comparing a monk with a legendary (defender), two rare (bracers and ring), and one uncommon (cloak) to a fighter with one legendary and one very rare. Third, by the time you've dropped, say, the ring to actually get under the attunement limit, the monk's dropped two AC behind the fighter. So, in your chosen comparison, we can drop the fighter to +2 items. Thus the monk needs [I]three[/I] items (1 legendary/1 rare/1 uncommon) to match a fighter with two items (1 very rare/1 rare). Give the fighter a cloak (1 uncommon) and move the fighter's armor back up to legendary for an exact commonality match with the defender, and have the fighter be ahead by 2 on AC, plus having two attunement "slots" open to the monk's zero. In any case, the point [I]again[/I] is that the monk lags. The debate clearly isn't whether or not the monk sucks, it's whether the monk's sucking should be fixed by revising the class, adding feats, changing magic items, or something else. [/QUOTE]

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