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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6167721" data-attributes="member: 48965">The poison trap was just a simple example, the details of which (like whether this knowledge is assumed or not) aren't important when looking at the wider statement about world building.  I disagree with your classifying exploration with discovery. I agree something can (possibly) only be discovered once... but exploration of a particular thing can extend beyond the first time it is discovered.  I pretty much agree with your statement here and feel like this supports my earlier statements about both backgrounds and OUT's. I also think that 13th Age encourages the DM to give the players carte blanch with OUT's (as long as the player doesn't expect a mechanical bonus or effect in the game because of it)... while leaning towards vet power in the case of backgrounds (IMO because they, unlike OUT's have concrete mechanical in-game effects).  I like the different approach to these two character components and it suits my preferred play style very well....and here is where I disagree.  I don't see the role of Icon relationships being meant to constrain the GM to actually include situations where the OUT's and backgrounds are going to come into focus.  IMO, they are totally separate game devices that have the potential to come into sync but were not purposefully built to do so.  I feel like the problem with your view on Icons is that it pre-supposes that a player will select OUT's and backgrounds that are in some way related to the Icons... but that is an assumption that nothing in the actual 13th age game forces or even influences a player to do.   Can a players backgrounds/OUT be centered around an Icon... sure but they can just as easily have nothing to do with the Icons at all.  The Icon relationships, IMO, are a tool for a player to say hey I want situations and hooks that center around these things and a tool for the DM to fairly(randomly) determine whose favorite hooks or situations will get screen time in this particular adventure.</blockquote>

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