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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felix" data-source="post: 2916081" data-attributes="member: 3929">I'm not suprised you feel that way considering that someone who's Neutral on the Good-Evil axis can do both Good and Evil deeds and keep their alignment. Nor is there a requirement for anyone to be nice in any alignment, and not-niceness frequently leads to folks thinking, "ooh, Evil".Except that Chaotic Evil enjoys the pain and suffering of others, and will go out of their way to cuase it. Chaotic Goods will go out of their way to assuage the pain and suffereing of others. Is it so hard to imagine that someone neither enjoys the pain and suffering of others nor is willing to sacrifice themselves without some other motivation? Someone travelling through the Dust Bowl in the 30's sure might feel bad for all those farmers without doing anything to help them because they have their own problems and their own family to care for. That's Neutral.Yes, a chaotic evil person is concerned with himself, much like a chaotic neutral guy is. But while one will enjoy benefiting himself at other's expense, the other will not. There's so much room for motivation on the Chaos side of the axis and between Good and Evil, and you're turning it into a waystation. It's as bad as that horrible 2nd Edition description of "insane people are CN".And if you're in for a folkloric Good v Evil campaign, then just cut to the chase and get rid of the Neutral alignment, or reserve it for animals and extraplanars. Force humanity to make a choice.Then award it for group cohesion, not for what someone has written on their character sheet. Lawful characters can be ever so disruptive when it comes to the funcitoning of a party, as much as Chaotic characters can. So if working together is what you want, then award the players for working together. Me writing "Lawful" doesn't mean I play nice with others.Instead of luring players to do what you want them to do to fit into your campaign, try just telling them to create Good characters, either Lawful or NG, and be done with it. Nothing wrong with that, and you won't have any resentment because your mechanics don't reward a Chaotic Neutral (or other alignment) charcter, no matter how well he's played.If it exists enough to both bold and italicize it, I must be blind. Surely you can't be talking about Neutral's immunity to things like Holy and Unholy swords...? Since Neutrals get whacked by all four of the Blasphemy, Holy Word, Order's Wrath, and Chaos Hammer spells. Among others.The description of Chaotic includes this: "lets society benefit from the potential...". People must have personal freedom to do what they can do the best so that society may benefit. Society may benefit. It's not like Chaotics are saying "society is wrong", they're saying that each individual has within him the ability to improve society by acting in a manner that benefits himself first instead of acting "for the group". The benefits society reaps will be greatest when each individual works hard to get as far as he can with his own skills.It absolutely does not say, "chaotics will not organize". And though you said you've changed that, you un-changed it when you rewarded Lawfuls with two social feats more than Chaotics. If you're keen on social feats, which are an interesting idea, why don't you offer different social feats to Lawfuls that you do to Chaotics? Sure, the Lawful feats will be more group-oriented and the Chaotics more Individual-oriented, but that makes sense. Let Neutrals cherry pick twixt the two. ---Put it this way, I'd be frustrated in a game where the DM wants my character to be a certain kind of character, but instead of telling me that, he just rewards the folks who do what he likes. If you came out and said, "Heroic campaign, LG and NG only", I'd say "ok, cool" and play along. What I wouldn't like is to come up with a really great CN Fighter/Bard who spent his youth on a sailing ship and sings sea chantys, only to have him weaker than the others because I didn't do what you wanted me to do.I very much advise against steering your players in this manner.</blockquote>

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