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<blockquote data-quote="MadMaligor" data-source="post: 4289479" data-attributes="member: 66102">Bean, the idea of level value in monsters has always been there, in every edition.&nbsp; Its as much a part of D&amp;D as anything.&nbsp; I would argue that 4th actually takes a step in the direction of allowing downgrades in a number of areas.&nbsp; But there are gonna be certain creatures that have innate abilities that equate to &quot;X&quot; level value.&nbsp; They certainly arent born into those powers at infancy and you can rule as you see fit.&nbsp; But those societies you mention have a history of &quot;survival of the fitest&quot;.&nbsp; At maturity, certain monsters (especially the non humanoid ones) are going to be at a certain base level, or would have been weeded out long ago through the natural selection process.You certainly can make the aberrant exception (thats what DM'ing is all about).&nbsp; But the norms are going to have a baseline.&nbsp; Downgrading humanoid variations actually is just a process of removal or neutering of ability.&nbsp; But you would have to come up with some sort of story line reasoning for that I guess.&nbsp; I can see where you are coming from, but I think there are plenty of reasons for setting the bar a bit higher on some humanoid monster races.I just had a thought.&nbsp; You might consider keeping the abilities (maybe lower the defenses a bit), and just setting them at minion level.&nbsp; That way they are deadly as hell, but die after a hit.&nbsp; The only problem then is houseruling the system of experience reward appropriately.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MadMaligor, post: 4289479, member: 66102"] Bean, the idea of level value in monsters has always been there, in every edition. Its as much a part of D&D as anything. I would argue that 4th actually takes a step in the direction of allowing downgrades in a number of areas. But there are gonna be certain creatures that have innate abilities that equate to "X" level value. They certainly arent born into those powers at infancy and you can rule as you see fit. But those societies you mention have a history of "survival of the fitest". At maturity, certain monsters (especially the non humanoid ones) are going to be at a certain base level, or would have been weeded out long ago through the natural selection process. You certainly can make the aberrant exception (thats what DM'ing is all about). But the norms are going to have a baseline. Downgrading humanoid variations actually is just a process of removal or neutering of ability. But you would have to come up with some sort of story line reasoning for that I guess. I can see where you are coming from, but I think there are plenty of reasons for setting the bar a bit higher on some humanoid monster races. I just had a thought. You might consider keeping the abilities (maybe lower the defenses a bit), and just setting them at minion level. That way they are deadly as hell, but die after a hit. The only problem then is houseruling the system of experience reward appropriately. [/QUOTE]

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