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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ryryguy" data-source="post: 4290762" data-attributes="member: 64945">So it seems like your specific complaint is about humanoids.  In 3e, the majority of creatures are nonhumanoids with relatively fixed Challenge Rating.  Sure, you could advance them or add class levels in some cases to increase CR (with somewhat uncertain results).  But the minimum CR was fixed.  So if you had in mind a campaign involving beholders and you wanted the PCs fighting beholders from 1st level, you'd pretty much have to create your own CR 1 "beholder light" monster from scratch.Even with regard to humanoids, there was a little bit of variation in minimum CR.  Drow have a +1 CR on top of their class levels, right?  So even if you're talking about an encounter with 1st level Drow, just one on his own is a second level encounter.  A more realistic encounter with a group of 4 1st level drow would be a level six encounter.  I don't actually have the 4e MM to check - what is the encounter level of their sample drow encounter with the level 11 versions?  Level 11 or 12?  The 3e level 6 encounter is not that far from level 11 on the 4e scale: 6/20 = 0.3 vs 11/30 = 0.36.Even so, it does seem that maybe drow did get kicked up a notch in 4e (and maybe some of my numbers are off).  And I think you do have a point in that 4e jettisoning the "build monsters just like players" philosophy also required them to jettison the "level 0" humanoid "template".  For your specific goal - drow that are a lower level challenge - the old humanoid template would have been an easy way to achieve that, and it's no longer available.On the other hand, the new way of building monsters is advertised as being far easier and quicker to create custom monsters.  (I have yet to get my hands dirty with it so I can't say if it's true, just that's what people are saying.)  So, if that is correct, it shouldn't be that hard to create lower level drow to meet your specific needs, using the new ways of doing things.</blockquote>

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