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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DamnedChoir" data-source="post: 4078333" data-attributes="member: 56141">I sort of have to agree with the OP on this, more or less.It feels to me the game is becoming more of a battle mat tactics and skirmish game than anything else, and I've never used miniatures or battle mats for roleplaying games before, Not even in 3E, but none of my friends were munchkins or grognards, either.It feels like keeping track of every ability, most of which are hard to even explain in non-gamist terms, is going to be a hassle, and that combat in general will be it's own game.Yes, yes, for all of you who are violently and vehemently attacking the OP and defending 4E, /you/ certainly like 4E, but your methods for convincing others otherwise aren't really doing much.It just doesn't seem like it's for me and my group for a RPG, but we might end up playing it off and on with a beer or something, like Munchkin, from time to time. Still, we've already begun to move away from D&D 3.5 in the first place and look for other systems like Shadowrun or Storyteller which are much less hard to explain in simulationist terms and are more flexible.Anyways, I'm still liking alot of what I see about D&D...but it doesn't seem like a Role-Playing Game anymore.</blockquote>