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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Derro" data-source="post: 4080700" data-attributes="member: 51010">(Emphasis mine)Oh, man. Can't... breathe... choking... on... own... disbelief.The demand for believability has nothing to do with the kind of game you are playing. The demand for believability has to do with what is plausible within the confines of the setting. If something breaks that plausibility it breaks the whole suspension of disbelief and ruins the game play experience.To address the OP. I wouldn't be too concerned with the role-playing elements of the game being removed or having a reduced presence. Examine, if you will, the 3.x model of ruled role-playing. What do you have? Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Intimidate, Perform, Sense Motive, and arguably Speak Language. Then there are feats and spells that improve or alter your results gained with these skills.As far as I can see there are all of these things in one form or another in 4e. I imagine that the "social combat system" will have plenty of special abilities for talky rogues, uppity wizards and what have you.I mean really the role-playing aspect of any games is little more than play acting anyway.Ex:Player: I threaten the punk with my dagger and get him to tell me where his boss is.GM: Make an Intimidate check against his social defense.orPlayer: Listen, dog, this is 18 inches of Cimmerian steel. It could take a man's head clean off. You gotta ask yourself, do you feel lucky, punk? Well do ya? Now spill your guts before I do it for you. Where's your boss?GM: Make an Intimidate check against his social defense. I'll give you a +2 circumstance bonus for the speech.I don't see how the system would alter the presentation or outcome of either scenario. Now if your concern is that the system will reduce social interaction to little more than competitive dice rolling then your that would be more valid. But that is where the GM and players hold their fates in their own hands. Those dice are going to be rolled either way. What happens pre- and post- system is the where the RP is.Good and bad role-playing happen. Whatever system you are playing the opportunities are there. As far as the hit point/mook/healing surge issues are concerned I can't really comment without actually seeing this stuff implemented. Personally I like mook rules. It's cinematic which is good. Unless you want to play a gritty game. And that brings me to the real meat of the matter.4e will not do gritty without substantial re-writes and adjustments of the RAW. I'm making that bold, sweeping and totally unsubstantiated statement and standing firmly by it. My reasoning is this. All of the stuff that I have seen from the development team indicates that they want a fast-playing, intuitive, butt-kicking game. That's not gritty.I think it was stated somewhere earlier in this thread but I'll reiterate it because I think it is succinct and apt. 4e is no longer the fantasy toolkit that D&D has been for a long time. There is now a very distinct flavor tied to the core rules. That is not the D&D I have been playing for 20 years. And that is the reason I won't be switching.Edit: Wording</blockquote>

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