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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 4081004" data-attributes="member: 42582">For those who are interested in a fantasy RPG that is gritty and has rules that are intended to model, in a verisimilitude-preserving fashion, in-game causal relations, I mention RM Classic - the re-released version of RM 2 available from ICE's web site.There is also HARP, available from the same publisher: it has a few incidents of incoherence between simulationist and and non-simulationist design priorities, but probably not enough to interfere with most people's play (certainly no more than any pre-4e edition of D&D).As for the housecat problem - surely it is not an imputation of a typical fantasy RPG that it doesn't handle housecats very well? As for snakes, scorpions etc: in 4e, give them an attack against Fortitude if a Perception roll is failed and be done with it. Australian farmers and householders kill the worlds most poisonous spiders and most poisonous snakes day in and day out with stick, shovels etc  - not always successfully, sometimes getting bitten, but mostly without too much trouble. This includes my grandparents, either of whom could kill a brown snake with a shovel well into their 60s and early 70s, neither of whom ever got bitten, but neither of whom was any sort of warrior (or barbarian, Cohen or otherwise) in D&D's sense. Their killing of a poisonous snake isn't the sort of "combat" that D&D is trying to handle through its BAB, AC and hit points rules, as far as I can tell.</blockquote>

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