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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DragonLancer" data-source="post: 1769096" data-attributes="member: 11868">They are abstract, but not in such a fashion as to need a change in a 4th edition. Its a part of the game that really is just OOC, for lack of a better term. Its a game mechanic that does not need to simulate realism, because it is just a game mechanic. Same goes with AC. The DV system as used in D20 Star Wars or Babylon 5 works well, especially for a sci-fi D20 game, but the AC system works well for what it needs to be. At least it doesn't go backwards into negatives anymore.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> You make good points, but another thing I will say in defence of hit points and armour class is that they are and always have been part and parcel of D&D. I think to change that would be to take something away from the game.The idea of certain skills (swim, climb, jump...etc) being considered class skills regardless of class would be a nice addition. It would mean Fighters would need a few more skills added to their class skill list, plus a couple more skill points per level. Fighters get feats though to compensate, so not too many skills or skill points.Thats what one of my players says as well. However, D&D worked well for 20+ years without them and I don't know that we need to have them. Though they are a nice addition to 3rd edition, they do add more rules to remember whether DM or player. I prefer to keep things simple.Yes, and no. You can point that at players true, but it doesn't help that feats and the D20 system does encourage powergaming. You never really had powergaming under prior editions, because countless options were not available. Options are good, but only when balanced. The debate for and against feats and how it applies to powergaming, is perhaps best left for a different thread.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  As I recall, at the time I was thinking about the various voices raised against the Cleric, Sorcerer, Bard and Paladin - all for different reasons. I would not want 4th edition to drop down to say just four classes. We had that in basic edition, and it needed to be expanded. 3rd ed has it about right, and with the 3.5 revision, the classes are about balanced enough. This is one of those cases where the options we have are enough IMO.I find AoO's to be really an unnessecary part of the game. Do you really need these rules? No, not really.During game, it slows things down whenever other actions taken either by an NPC, monster or PC, draws at least one AoO. I also find they take away a lot of the enjoyment of the game, either because it turns from a RPG to a game of chess trying to work out moves and actions that won't lead to an AoO. Not to mention even I have trouble remembering what does and doesn't draw an AoO.</blockquote>

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