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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arlough" data-source="post: 5906662" data-attributes="member: 79335">This is going to be a long one, so bear with me.  I'll sblock it down so it doesn't take up so much space.I'd give you XP for coming to the same brilliant (obviously) conclusion that I was thinking, but I can't...yet. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Two things <ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The bard didn't exist at the time, that is why I used a warlord.  Bard didn't come out until PHB2.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The class can matter, and I can think of two ways to make it so.(see below)</li> </ol>This touches on Minigiant's idea, which I will deal with below.Please don't take this as an attack against you or an invalidation of your ideas, as that is certainly not my intent.I agree that to some, labels do matter.  But I postulate that they shouldn't.The main argument with keeping labels seems to focus on some derivation of "it's always been done that way."  My favorite counter argument is "So has the running of the bulls. That doesn't mean it isn't stupid." But in this case, it isn't stupid, it just isn't the right way.  Labels tell us all sorts of things, and inform us in ways we usually don't realize.  An example would be sequel.  When I say something is a sequel, that means that it is an extension of the original story, but what it implies is that it will also be a similar story telling style, and therefore it sets expectations.  The Chronicles of Riddick is a sequel to Pitch Black in the first sense, but completely fails to me the expectations generated by the implication of sameness.Nonetheless, labels can still be useful, just not necessary.  I can think of two ways to do this.1) Use Class as an additional kit that is added to the Role and the Source to define a character.  Perhaps it is a class feature or maybe a set of class abilities.  Maybe it is like a Paragon Path, in that it is a themed set of features and abilities given at certain levels.2) Use Minigiant's idea.  Class does not define your character, your character defines a class.  Similar to CCGs having names for certain deck designs, a class would be a certain set of abilities and methods.  This means that advanced players could have complex builds that try out new ways of combining powers, skills, and abilities, and new players could pick a preset kit of those called "Fighter" and not have to worry about system mastery.In either of these structures, the term "Fighter" would have meaning, but it would not be as concept limiting.  Similar to how in the current edition, if you find yourself going up against a Brute, that tells you they hit hard and probably have lots of HP, but it doesn't tell you if they are armored or if they use one or two weapons.</blockquote>

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