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"My X is underpowered compared to Y." So?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 6638203" data-attributes="member: 6750235"><p>Monks do good damage. A free bonus attack plus kind for another additional attack plus extra attack plus scaling weapon damage isn't bad damage at all. What they lack is feat support for their combat abilities but not taking one feat is just taking another for a different advantage. </p><p></p><p>Monks are good at getting to key targets for attacking by speed and mobility, and using stunning fist attacks. They are also the only class with proficiency in every save and can give themselves advantage on the saves.</p><p></p><p>Open hand monks have an SoD attack and that tends to trump higher damage anyway.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>When does the barbarian can launch AoE damage or twin a control spell? Believing that the sorcerer should do more damage than the barbarian because of the sorcerer's small toolbox is backwards when the barbarian had an even smaller toolbox. ;-)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Wizards almost never dominate. With less at-will damage than warlocks or weapon users, less burst impact than a sorcerer or fighter or paladin, higher squishy factor, legendary saves, and utility spells that are replaced by skills the wizard shine moments are the rare occasion a ritual or spell is actually available that might be important out of combat, AoE softening salvo's, and most commonly controlling effects and buffs to watch the heavy damage combat classes shine as a support option.</p><p></p><p>Wizards are often useful but dominating anything is an overstatement.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In general, balance is measured by perception of contribution because the contributions are often apples to oranges. Damage is more quantifiable than many contributions and often the topic for discussion because it's quantifiable. I use it frequently too. I don't think it's the only consideration and I think it's important to stress that other considerations have subjective value because the players don't start with the same priorities or values.</p><p></p><p>Damage comparison is more relevant with the monk and another similar class like a rogue or ranger but it's still only part of the package. All the arguing aside, I find it mostly an academic exercise.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 6638203, member: 6750235"] Monks do good damage. A free bonus attack plus kind for another additional attack plus extra attack plus scaling weapon damage isn't bad damage at all. What they lack is feat support for their combat abilities but not taking one feat is just taking another for a different advantage. Monks are good at getting to key targets for attacking by speed and mobility, and using stunning fist attacks. They are also the only class with proficiency in every save and can give themselves advantage on the saves. Open hand monks have an SoD attack and that tends to trump higher damage anyway. When does the barbarian can launch AoE damage or twin a control spell? Believing that the sorcerer should do more damage than the barbarian because of the sorcerer's small toolbox is backwards when the barbarian had an even smaller toolbox. ;-) Wizards almost never dominate. With less at-will damage than warlocks or weapon users, less burst impact than a sorcerer or fighter or paladin, higher squishy factor, legendary saves, and utility spells that are replaced by skills the wizard shine moments are the rare occasion a ritual or spell is actually available that might be important out of combat, AoE softening salvo's, and most commonly controlling effects and buffs to watch the heavy damage combat classes shine as a support option. Wizards are often useful but dominating anything is an overstatement. In general, balance is measured by perception of contribution because the contributions are often apples to oranges. Damage is more quantifiable than many contributions and often the topic for discussion because it's quantifiable. I use it frequently too. I don't think it's the only consideration and I think it's important to stress that other considerations have subjective value because the players don't start with the same priorities or values. Damage comparison is more relevant with the monk and another similar class like a rogue or ranger but it's still only part of the package. All the arguing aside, I find it mostly an academic exercise. [/QUOTE]
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