Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
"My X is underpowered compared to Y." So?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6640089" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>You're right, that is (or was, it didn't last long) quite new. In classic D&D, classes and races might 'balance' over the expected life of a campaign, with non-/demi- humans and fighters doing well at low levels, and humans and caster dominating at higher levels. What they discovered when designing 3e, though, was that campaign rarely went that whole life-cycle, they often topped out around 10th. So 3e made some attempt at balance for the first 10 levels, and prettymuch let it go after that. It wasn't really successful in that attempt, but there's a 3.5 variant called 'E6' in which most PC abilities stop advancing at 6th level, that works a bit better. </p><p></p><p> That was a 3e innovation that 5e has adopted, yes. </p><p></p><p> That's a good theory. I'm not sure if it holds up, or if 5e uses the 3e model of attempted balance, instead. </p><p></p><p>5e's immediate predecessor was neatly balanced at all levels, but it didn't use the 3e-style multi-classing or classic Vancian casting that 5e has returned to. If you're seeing a concern for 'balance in the moment,' it's left over from debates and opinions within the community in the 15 years between 2e and 5e. There's little in 5e's design to suggest that it is greatly concerned with balance among classes, either in the moment, or over a life cycle. Rather, if anything, it seeks a roving sort of 'spotlight balance' in which each class is so differentiated and differently specialized that it will, in a well-managed campaign, have moments when it's the star of the show, because it has just the right spell, high skill check, DPR throughput, or whatever to outshine the rest of the party in that given moment. </p><p></p><p>So it's more differently imbalanced in the moment. </p><p></p><p> Yes. It's easy to calculate, it's reasonably objective. </p><p></p><p>DPR optimization has it's place at the table, as well. Since D&D uses a damage-tracking system of hps in which the performance of a figure is not degraded by hp damage until it is dropped/killed, focusing damage on one enemy at a time is the most obvious/basic/effective combat tactic, in general. By choosing a DPR-only class and optimizing it for offense, a player can eschew more complex tactical decisions and non-combat contributions, while still having a character that pulls his own weight and contributes consistently.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6640089, member: 996"] You're right, that is (or was, it didn't last long) quite new. In classic D&D, classes and races might 'balance' over the expected life of a campaign, with non-/demi- humans and fighters doing well at low levels, and humans and caster dominating at higher levels. What they discovered when designing 3e, though, was that campaign rarely went that whole life-cycle, they often topped out around 10th. So 3e made some attempt at balance for the first 10 levels, and prettymuch let it go after that. It wasn't really successful in that attempt, but there's a 3.5 variant called 'E6' in which most PC abilities stop advancing at 6th level, that works a bit better. That was a 3e innovation that 5e has adopted, yes. That's a good theory. I'm not sure if it holds up, or if 5e uses the 3e model of attempted balance, instead. 5e's immediate predecessor was neatly balanced at all levels, but it didn't use the 3e-style multi-classing or classic Vancian casting that 5e has returned to. If you're seeing a concern for 'balance in the moment,' it's left over from debates and opinions within the community in the 15 years between 2e and 5e. There's little in 5e's design to suggest that it is greatly concerned with balance among classes, either in the moment, or over a life cycle. Rather, if anything, it seeks a roving sort of 'spotlight balance' in which each class is so differentiated and differently specialized that it will, in a well-managed campaign, have moments when it's the star of the show, because it has just the right spell, high skill check, DPR throughput, or whatever to outshine the rest of the party in that given moment. So it's more differently imbalanced in the moment. Yes. It's easy to calculate, it's reasonably objective. DPR optimization has it's place at the table, as well. Since D&D uses a damage-tracking system of hps in which the performance of a figure is not degraded by hp damage until it is dropped/killed, focusing damage on one enemy at a time is the most obvious/basic/effective combat tactic, in general. By choosing a DPR-only class and optimizing it for offense, a player can eschew more complex tactical decisions and non-combat contributions, while still having a character that pulls his own weight and contributes consistently. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
"My X is underpowered compared to Y." So?
Top