Mystery/Detective in DnD
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SweeneyTodd
First Post
The basic approach Gumshoe seems to take is "If not finding something would stop the investigation cold, then the PC's find it." I think that fits pretty well with 4e, and it's what I did when I was running D20 modern.
Basically, failed investigation rolls aren't about whether or not you can continue the investigation, but about how tough a time you have along the way. One of the Dungeon adventures for 4e basically worked that way, in that the skill challenge wasn't "Find the lost paladin, or don't", it was "Find the lost paladin without getting into more trouble along the way, or find him plus some trouble."
Basically, failed investigation rolls aren't about whether or not you can continue the investigation, but about how tough a time you have along the way. One of the Dungeon adventures for 4e basically worked that way, in that the skill challenge wasn't "Find the lost paladin, or don't", it was "Find the lost paladin without getting into more trouble along the way, or find him plus some trouble."
ryryguy
First Post
So a bit of a tangent but... watching a Law and Order: Criminal Intent the other day, it struck me that many scenes could be reimagined as a 4e skill challenge. Goren sees a bloodstain on the floor of the basement (Spot success). It leads him to find a knife concealed in a box (Search success). Later, when the bad guy comes to get the knife, Goren plays it like he didn't know about the knife before (Bluff success). He has a special use for Intimidate that's basically "rattle the perp by getting inside his head"... like "That's why your mother hates you, isn't it?" with a +2 circumstance bonus for something he learned from talking to the mother.
Goren is clearly epic level by the way. He rarely fails a check... Alternatively and back a bit on point, he might fail some occasionally that the writers don't necessarily call out. He just has the chance to get a success with a different check later on and end up at the same plot point...
Goren is clearly epic level by the way. He rarely fails a check... Alternatively and back a bit on point, he might fail some occasionally that the writers don't necessarily call out. He just has the chance to get a success with a different check later on and end up at the same plot point...
LostSoul
Adventurer
ryryguy said:
It's been a while since I watched, but I think his failures are when he reveals his personality, alienating the people around him.
Anyways, Skill Challenges are probably the way to go. (Hopefully the math works!
) GUMSHOE has good advice. If the PC's need to find a clue for the plot to move forward, give it to them. Make failure about losing resources (healing surges, allies, getting into fights and running across hazards/traps, maybe gp in the form of rituals and bribes) instead of discovering the necessary clue.
galaga88
Explorer
Steve Jackson Games has a GURPS Mysteries they released in PDF and softcover.
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/mysteries/
It has an entire chapter dedicated to low-tech mysteries. You don't need GURPS to use it, there's not much crunch in it.
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/mysteries/
It has an entire chapter dedicated to low-tech mysteries. You don't need GURPS to use it, there's not much crunch in it.
After choosing your RPG system of choice (you seem to be going for 4Ed D&D):
1) Buy the GURPS mysteries sourcebook mentioned above. I hate GURPS and haven't seen that particular book, but GURPS books are generally well done and researched and tend to be chock full of solid advice and yoinkable goodness.
2) Consider what kind of mysteries you want your PCs to solve. There's lots of various sources to consider- the L&O or CSI TV series' give you all kinds of murders and other crimes to solve, as do classic TV shows like Columbo, Banacek, and so forth. OTOH, there are also shows like Ghost Hunters, Friday the 13th: the series, X-Files, the Scooby Doo shows, and comics like Challengers of the Unknown in which the goal is seeking to uncover the truth behind paranormal events. Then there's pulp adventure mysteries as popularized by things like the Jon Carter, Doc Savage, Indiana Jones, National Treasure and Quatermass franchises, or more modern versions like the A-Team and Charlie's Angels.
3) Decide on your campaign's overall tone- serious like Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot or Benjamin January, or with a lighter touch like Nero Wolfe & Archie- esp. in the fantasy reinterpretation in Glen Cook's Garrett & "The Dead Man." Even nearly pure comedy can work, like in Moonlighting or The Venture Bros.
4) Set PC age. It matters somewhat- are your PCs adults, or are they younger "detectives," like Nancy Drew, Encyclopedia Brown, Light Yagami, L, Near, Johnny Quest and the Hardy Boys...or even an amalgam like Jimmy Kudo?
Kids can sometimes get away with things adults can't, and are often underestimated by their elders. Meanwhile, adults can usually go places no child can go and have connections and licenses no child can match. This dichotomy matters more in modern society, but would still be present in a typical FRPG setting.
(Check out post#146 in this thread for the Nancy Drow Mysteries. There are also a bunch of other good ideas in there...
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=102706 )
5) Don't overlook the current crop of modern fantasy. Many of the characters within tend to be mystical detectives of a sort, like Simon Green's Nightside and Jim Butcher's Dresden Files novels.
1) Buy the GURPS mysteries sourcebook mentioned above. I hate GURPS and haven't seen that particular book, but GURPS books are generally well done and researched and tend to be chock full of solid advice and yoinkable goodness.
2) Consider what kind of mysteries you want your PCs to solve. There's lots of various sources to consider- the L&O or CSI TV series' give you all kinds of murders and other crimes to solve, as do classic TV shows like Columbo, Banacek, and so forth. OTOH, there are also shows like Ghost Hunters, Friday the 13th: the series, X-Files, the Scooby Doo shows, and comics like Challengers of the Unknown in which the goal is seeking to uncover the truth behind paranormal events. Then there's pulp adventure mysteries as popularized by things like the Jon Carter, Doc Savage, Indiana Jones, National Treasure and Quatermass franchises, or more modern versions like the A-Team and Charlie's Angels.
3) Decide on your campaign's overall tone- serious like Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot or Benjamin January, or with a lighter touch like Nero Wolfe & Archie- esp. in the fantasy reinterpretation in Glen Cook's Garrett & "The Dead Man." Even nearly pure comedy can work, like in Moonlighting or The Venture Bros.
4) Set PC age. It matters somewhat- are your PCs adults, or are they younger "detectives," like Nancy Drew, Encyclopedia Brown, Light Yagami, L, Near, Johnny Quest and the Hardy Boys...or even an amalgam like Jimmy Kudo?
Kids can sometimes get away with things adults can't, and are often underestimated by their elders. Meanwhile, adults can usually go places no child can go and have connections and licenses no child can match. This dichotomy matters more in modern society, but would still be present in a typical FRPG setting.
(Check out post#146 in this thread for the Nancy Drow Mysteries. There are also a bunch of other good ideas in there...
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=102706 )
5) Don't overlook the current crop of modern fantasy. Many of the characters within tend to be mystical detectives of a sort, like Simon Green's Nightside and Jim Butcher's Dresden Files novels.
Last edited:
Kristian Serrano
Explorer
If you're playing D20, Crime and Punishment by Keith Baker is an excellent book for fantasy gumshoe roleplaying. It contains a great class called the the Investigator. It also has a Bounty Hunter standard class and some interesting PrCs.
The book also includes new spells, magic items, and discussions about law, crime and punishment (go figure) in a D&D world.
The book also includes new spells, magic items, and discussions about law, crime and punishment (go figure) in a D&D world.
BTW, how big a group are you running? Some mystery/detective stories work best with single PCs or small groups (4 or less). Others work better with large groups.
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