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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wik" data-source="post: 4677900" data-attributes="member: 40177">In general, investigation-based games tend to be rules-light.  d20 Cthulu, for example, burnt out much of the 3e rules that were not necessary (such as AoOs), and kept the rest.  Apparently, base CoC is pretty rules-light.And Esoterrorists is about as rules-light as they come, or so I've heard.  I agree regarding clues, to an extent.  I think, if you're going to run an investigation-based game, you have to give rules to allow for character differentation.  In many games, this means skills, though in the Eberron CSI game I mentioned in that other thread, this could also mean specific spell sets (the Necromancer, the Diviner, the Charmer, etc).  The reasoning for this is simple - if you make an almost rules-less game, you are essentially allowing only the most verbal or more puzzle-minded players to really participate in the game.  The rest of the group is simply looking under a table while the Sherlock Holmes guy is making the lion's share of the deductions.That's the problem with mysteries in a game - the mystery genre is rarely suited towards a group (CSI notwithstanding).  So, if you're running a mystery campaign, you better make sure each PC offers something to the investigation.  Imagine a 5 person group.  In CSI: Eberron, the group could be:*  A Skill monkey based around gather information, search, and the like.  A "private eye"*  A diviner spellcasting wizard.  Uses all those nice divination spells.*  A sorcerer focused on utility spells for an investigator - speak with dead, for example.  Great for niche support.  Also has some good combat spells.*  A bard, with all that bards bring to the table.*  A fighter (with the thug variant).  This guy has some useful skills (Intimidate, for example), but his main use is in the inevitable combats that will prop up.  You can see that each character has a role in the party.  The rogue can use skills to follow leads, while the two big spellcasters can act as specialists, refining answers.  The bard can use his bardic knowledge to serve as a general wellspring of knowledge.  The thug might be at a disadvantage in this game, unless the GM throws a few fights at the group, in which case the thug will shine.Now, imagine that same group, in an investigation-rich campaign, using BECMI rules:*  A fighter*  a wizard*  a cleric*  a thief*  an elf.Now, in one way, you're right.  Everyone in this group will get to participate.  There are no perception checks, so the fighter can find a clue just as easily as the elf.  It's all in the questions, right?  Except, certain classes offer more benefits to the player than others, assuming the campaign (and not just the adventure) is investigation-heavy.  A wizard or elf (especially the elf, with their perception powers) will be a great boon, as they have powers that can really improve upon non-combat encounters - Charm Person can be a life saver when you're interviewing withnesses.  And a cleric's augury can definitely save you some time (not to mention Speak with dead).  While a fighter may have some benefits, it has NO benefits over those previously-mentioned classes that relate to the game's primary focus (investigation) So, if you have a group that enters into BECMI with an investigation campaign in mind, your group will probably look like this:*  An Elf*  a Wizard*  A Cleric*  An elf.*  Another frigging elf.  And your choice of system has enforced that.  This, by the way, was what started the edition wars fight in the earlier thread.  I happened to point out that one edition ran mysteries better than another one for the reason I posted above, and some others took offence - by citing the points you did.The thing is, you are right - the mystery genre is more about Player/GM interaction than any rules mechanic.  But, when you run an RPG, the main thing about the game is the Characters (after all, Creating a Character is usually chapter one!).  Running an RPG where all characters are mechanically identical is pretty boring.  ANd if you run a game in an edition or system where only a small subset of roles encourage investigation, you can bet those roles will be focused upon (at the worst, you can have five players all running characters with the same class and "feat/skill" selection). ANyways, that's my two cents on the topic.</blockquote>

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