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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bendris Noulg" data-source="post: 827463" data-attributes="member: 6398">Yes, I did.  Obviously, some one else didn't.I didn't belittle him.  I simply indicated that his "knee jerk" comment carried no weight with me, mostly because I'm tired of hearing someone throw out the "knee jerk" comment whenever something new gets criticized.  It's belittling the person making the critique.That you agree with him and not me has obviously effected your judgement in the matter.All of the above can be tweaked by Feat selection and Magic Items.  In addition, this class also gains another boost: Lots of spells to Counterspell with while still having spells to cast directly.THAC0, true.  Hit points were moderately better (averaged d6).  The lower Turning ability can be bypassed via Divine Feats, which add power to the class rather than leaving it stuck with lower Turning capability.This is simply reflective of a complaint about this class already made: It's underpowered early and overpowered later.  The shallow hole becomes a mountain given enough levels.  That most games end between 12-15th Level doesn't come into this.  A game going beyond this (and mine do) will have issues with this class.True, but tweakable with Feats.Not entirely true.  Saves are based on Spell Level, not Caster Level, so what the class has is less spells with Higher saves (behind by only 1 or 2 points).  Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, and magic items easily change that.True, but tweakable.True, but again tweakable.In addition, the above list falls into the issue I've indicated previously about the shallow hole that naturally gets shallower with every level.  Eventually, that difference becomes insignificant.Which they then turn around and rebuff thanks to their additional spell slots.</blockquote>

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