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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 836904" data-attributes="member: 710">Kamikaze Midget: You mention the comparision to the Sorcerer. Let`s just compare a 16th level Sorcerer with a wizard3/cleric3/mystic theurge 10.The sorcerer can cast:6 spells (+bonus spells due to charisma) of 0-6th level, 5+bonus of 7th level and 3+bonus of 8th level. He has only a limited selection, but he can cast it spontanously. The Mystic Theurge can cast:Spells like a 13th level cleric, meaning: 6 0-level spells, 5+Domain+bonus spells from wisdom of 1st or second level. 4+Domain+bonus spells from wisdom of 3rd and 4th level. 3+Domain+bonus spells from wisdom of 5th level, 2+Domain+bonus spells from wisdom of 6th level, 1+Domain+Bonus Spells from Wisdom of 7th level. Spells like a 13th level wizard, meaning: 6 0-level spells, 5+school+bonus spells from intelligence of 1st or second level. 4+school+bonus spells from intelligence of 3rd and 4th level. 3+Domain+bonus spells from intelligence of 5th level, 2+Domain+bonus spells from intelligence of 6th level, 1+Domain+Bonus Spells from intelligence of 7th level. So, the MT is behind 1 spell level compared to the sorcerer. But he as a near unlimited spell list (at least on the "cleric side").But he can cast severely more spells per day: 6 level 0 spells (compared to 6)10+2+bonus 1st and 2nd level (compared to 6+bonus)8+2+bonus of 3rd and 4th level. (compared to 6+bonus)6+2+bonus of 5th level (compared to 6+bonus)4+2+bonus of 6th level (compared to 6+bonus)2+2+bonus of 7th level (compared to 5+bonus)0 spells of 8th level (compared to 3+bonus)Other numbers (I hope I remember everything correctly):BAB Mystic Theurge: +8/+3BAB Sorcerer: +8/+3HP MT: 3d8+13d4+ 16 x ConHP Sorcerer: 16d4+16 x ConBase Saves MT: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +13Base Saves Sorcerer: Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +10Specialities MT: Scribe Scroll, 2 Domain Abilities, weak FamiliarSpecialities Sorcerer: "strong" FamiliarMagical Items MT: Can use any Cleric or Wizard/Sorcerer Scroll / Wand / Staff (provided he has sufficient caster level / Ability score)Can use special Cleric only/Wizard only items (Ring of Wizardry, Prayer Beeds and so on)Magical Items Sorcerer: Can use any Wizard/Sorcerer Scroll / Wand / Staff (provided he has sufficiend caster level / Ability score). Can use special Sorcerer only items (like Ring of Wizardry - greater benefits than MT in this case))Someone else may try to prove that losing a spell level for severely more spells/day makes the class balanced/shafted/broken (whatever he prefers)I think it makes the class broken. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />"Buffing": Most characters are dependent on some of these "buffs". A Mystic Theurge does not have to buff only himself (which is only interesting in smackdowns, not in a real adventure), he can buff the whole group. (10 level 2 spells allows 2 stat enhancers for everyone - without relying on other spellcasters! This frees also some item slots - why waste money on Gauntlets of Ogre Power? Or imagine the whole party wandering invisible through the dungeon, only attacking if absoluteley neccessary. Easy - but boring - game). A Single Dispel Magic / Greater Dispelling doesn`t do much in this matter, because an area effected will only "kill" one of the spells, or weaken a single character.Dispelling in combat is sometimes a good idea (especially if it is obvious that a single character has many spells cast on him), but not every enemy can "see" this automatically, and sometimes he might still prefer casting a real devastating spell at his enemies (like Cone of Cold, Disintegreate, Flamestrike, Fireball), because it`s not enough to cripple a single enemy, it is better to kill all of them...Mustrum Ridcully</blockquote>

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