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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Methos" data-source="post: 1079129" data-attributes="member: 5734">I'm trying to convince my DM to allow the Mystic Thurge prestige class in his campaign.  I have some great ideas about how to incorporate it into his home-cooked campaign in terms of background, etc., and why my character would be interested in the class from a role-playing perspective.  He may end up being on board from the campaign/world-building ideas that I have, after we discuss them a bit further, however, he thinks currently that the class in its existing format may be broken.  We may have to try to figure out additional ways that we could increase the "cost" if you will of allowing the class.  For example, requiring additional feats is one way of making it more "costly" to take the class.  Personally, I don't think it is necessary to do that.However, I wanted to know if other folks think the class is broken and why?My own analysis yields the following:Pros of the Class:1.  The obvious one is that you can rise concurrently as a spellcaster in both arcane and divine spells.  This is certainly a potentially very powerful mix.  I've assumed cleric for my analysis, but you could assume druid as well.Cons of the Class:1.  Lower hit die than a cleric,2.  No longer gain levels for purposes of undead turning,3.  No longer have the more favorable save bonuses as a cleric, but more like a wizard/sorcerer,4.  Give up at least 3 levels of either Wizard or Cleric in order to meet the cross class requirement.  In effect, you will still not be as effective at casting arcane spells as a pure arcane caster would, nor will you be as effective a divine caster as a pure divine spellcaster would be.5.  Assuming you max out on the Mystic Thurge, you give up 3 bonus item creation/metamagic feats compared to a pure wizard (sorcerers do not apply here) assuming you max out at 20th character level.6.  A sorcerer will never gain access to 9th level spells assuming a 20th character level max for a campaign.7.  Depending on what ability generation system is in use, you may suffer in terms of allocating your ability scores and in allocating the 1 point increase every 4 levels.  In effect, your spell DC's probably won't be as good as either a pure cleric, or a pure wizard/sorcerer.  In addition, if you choose to play a wizard, you will most likely have a relatively low charisma, which will impact such things as undead turning.  I'm assuming a 30 point buy such as in our campaign.  Not to mention that your survivability could suffer due to perhaps lower dex/con, depending on how you choose to allocate your points.8.  Your attack bonuses are not as good as a pure cleric.Does anyone else wish to comment?  Granted, the fact that you can rise as both an arcane and divine spellcaster at the same time is very powerful, however, I think all of the above detriments to taking the Mystic Thurge may compensate.  In effect, you have been given access to virtually all spells, but at a fairly significant cost I would argue.Please comment, I would like to hear some different perspectives.</blockquote>

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