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Mythological Figures: Achilles (5E)
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<blockquote data-quote="Jay Verkuilen" data-source="post: 7739333" data-attributes="member: 6873517"><p>It depends a lot on your view of the world and who's running around in it, but Strength 20 is really not difficult to get. A 6th level fighter can have it without a major stretch. IMO a 6th level fighter is a local area's Big Bad John, but by no stretch of the imagination is a civiization-level legendary. Heracles is, by contrast, the great hero of his age. He's clearly as strong as giants and indeed one of his deeds is to hold up the world for a time as well as defeating Antaeus, one of the strongest giants. He's constantly beating the snot out of foes, often by wrestling them and presumably killing them to death. </p><p></p><p>I'm not really sure that this is represented very well given the brick wall stat cap. Most characters would obtain their top stats in their prime requisites by level 8 or so, which doesn't feel all that world-striding legendary to me. Very few characters can get stats over 20, although the 20th level barbarian can gain giant-level Strength and Constitution. Heracles definitely feels barbarian to me: He walks around with a giant olive-wood club and is known for being nigh-indestructible, violent rages, and massive feats of strength. He's also got a girdle (Girdle of Giant Strength?) and might well have some divine gifts due to his birth. </p><p></p><p>I get what you're saying, though: Not having everyone maxed out makes them a lot more useful in game, but Heracles to me pretty much begs to be maxed. Classical mythology has many examples of lesser, or at least not nearly so maxed, heroes that can be perfectly well statted using the game. </p><p></p><p>All that said, note that an archmage is only CR 12 so even if you make Heracles a Level 20 barbarian with some extra abilities, he's still a reasonable foe for level 12 characters. He probably wouldn't even be that hard for a party that's built to take on his weak points.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jay Verkuilen, post: 7739333, member: 6873517"] It depends a lot on your view of the world and who's running around in it, but Strength 20 is really not difficult to get. A 6th level fighter can have it without a major stretch. IMO a 6th level fighter is a local area's Big Bad John, but by no stretch of the imagination is a civiization-level legendary. Heracles is, by contrast, the great hero of his age. He's clearly as strong as giants and indeed one of his deeds is to hold up the world for a time as well as defeating Antaeus, one of the strongest giants. He's constantly beating the snot out of foes, often by wrestling them and presumably killing them to death. I'm not really sure that this is represented very well given the brick wall stat cap. Most characters would obtain their top stats in their prime requisites by level 8 or so, which doesn't feel all that world-striding legendary to me. Very few characters can get stats over 20, although the 20th level barbarian can gain giant-level Strength and Constitution. Heracles definitely feels barbarian to me: He walks around with a giant olive-wood club and is known for being nigh-indestructible, violent rages, and massive feats of strength. He's also got a girdle (Girdle of Giant Strength?) and might well have some divine gifts due to his birth. I get what you're saying, though: Not having everyone maxed out makes them a lot more useful in game, but Heracles to me pretty much begs to be maxed. Classical mythology has many examples of lesser, or at least not nearly so maxed, heroes that can be perfectly well statted using the game. All that said, note that an archmage is only CR 12 so even if you make Heracles a Level 20 barbarian with some extra abilities, he's still a reasonable foe for level 12 characters. He probably wouldn't even be that hard for a party that's built to take on his weak points. [/QUOTE]
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