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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tallow" data-source="post: 251287" data-attributes="member: 4962">Rules for EL based on MagicI believe the DMG *HAS* rules, albeit a bit vague and/or ambiguous, for altering a challenge rating and/or encounter level based on the magic a creature and/or encounter has.I don't remember what the rules said, and I don't have my DMG with me right now at work, but...An off the cuff rule I usually use while DM'ing or Designing an adventure, is to look at the base states for the creature/encounter.  If it increases by roughly 50% in its base stats/power level, then increase the CR by 1.  You can kinda see this in the difference between a Gnome and a Svirfneblin, or an Elf and a Drow.  Of course some special abilities are going to increase challenge rating by one or two simply because they have it.Another arbitrary way to adjust CR accordingly, is to take a look at the old Second Edition chart in the DMG for monster hit dice bonuses/penalties based on particular special abilities for calculating the modified "level" of a monster for experience point awards.  Fly I believe added 1 hit dice while a single attack at over 50 damage max was a plus 3 hit dice.  These modifiers could actually, and easily, be used for 3E.These things can also be used to modify the average character level.  A 9th level fighter who's base stats (includes the 4th and 8th level ability bump)--sans magic aide--are improved by 50% with magic, should be considered a 10th level fighter when calculating average party level.  EL's, CR's and sometimes even XP if they walk through the fight, should be altered.  This should really only be done if they have enough magic to make the standard EL and CR calculations a cake walk.In any case, this argument is rather a moot point.  As I pointed out before, the naked 15th level fighter vs. the loaded 9th level fighter should never happen in a well run campaign.  Villains and monsters and encounters should be designed to be appropriately difficult for the loaded fighter.  The entire rules of the game are based on the fact, that by 9th level and 15th level, the players will have wealth equal to the wealth calculating chart for if you wanted to start a brand new 9th or 15th level character.  If you start a 3rd level character, you start with something like 2 grand in gold.   A 9th level character gets like 27 grand in gold.Another mistake being made in the above fight calculation, is that the 15th level fighter DOES have 5 more feats and one more attack, than the 9th level fighter.  Those 5 additional feats could be very instrumental in flat out winning the fight.  Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Whirlwind Attack, Supreme Cleave, Improved Critical, Spring Attack, etc all can have major effects if one has it, and the other doesn't.  All things for both fighters will be equal up to 9th level.  But the fighter doesn't stop becoming a better fighter from 10th to 15th simply because he's naked.  After all, he DID become a 15th level fighter.Andy Christian</blockquote>

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