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Message: <blockquote data-quote="thallone" data-source="post: 253185" data-attributes="member: 3882">Re: Re: Thoughts . . .First off, any player the is telling the GM that the GM is wrong is asking for a Tarrasque to sneak into his tent at night. "Oops, I'm sorry, you'll have to make a Will save DC 52. You failed? Well then, you stand frozen like a statue while the Tarrasque leisurely eats you."Seriously though. All players should be willing to abide the final say of the GM, or there should be campaign consequences. Think of it as bucking the will of the gods, since the GM is the gods. This doesn't mean that the player can't try to get his or her way in the game, but the player should find that at the very least, the character has to jump through a lot of hoops to do what the GM doesn't want. In other words, the best solution is not to deny the players or their characters anything, just make the things that you don't want more trouble than it's worth.The player wants that P-Class that you're keeping out of the campaign? Then they have to trek solo across the dying wastes of the Great Desert to the one place in the world that those mystical powers are taught, only to find that the last teacher has mysteriously <insert additional challenge here>. Want that nifty staff of everything? Too bad it's a gods-forged artifact that's currently in the possession of someone that the adventurers respect/revere/fear. Don't deny the mundane, either. Make things hard to get. Make it so that the PC's have to adventure as long to find the guy that's known to have the nifty trinket they want as they would have to just keep exploring and find it by chance. Or make it that they find someone who knows of the last resting place of just such an item, but they won't tell where for a finder's fee of less than 10 or 20 percent of item value. Not to mention the fact that recovering this relic may well cost the party or the individual far more than the value of the item in expended cash, time, and magic than it's actual value.I know I've rambled a bit, but the ultimate point is, just because you're denying something from your players that you don't want them to have, doesn't mean that you have to deny then from trying to get it. You just have to make it cost more than they think it's worth. Then, after a bit of this, they should come around and start to go against you less. And if not, they've just opened up all kinds of additional adventure ides for you, just by trying to do the 'impossible'.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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