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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Man in the Funny Hat" data-source="post: 6007005" data-attributes="member: 32740">Die-hard Old Schooler here, but the problem with this is that those save categories were all but utterly unconcerned with being tied to a specific ability score.  They were conceived simply according to the effect or the source of the effect.Paralyzation/Poison/Death Magic for example, did not care if the paralyzation was from a monsters bite, being rooted to the spot with fear, or a noxious gas.  The element it was concerned with was what it was trying to do.  It did not then modify that saving throw at all based on Con, or Str, or anything else.  Poison, of course was modified according to Con if you were, say, a dwarf or halfling, but that modifier applied strictly to POISON, it didn't modify the entire PPD category.2nd Edition actually went just a little further in explaining what each category represented beyond the listed effects and suggested what other effects ought to apply to those categories.  Save categories were then listed in order of importance and you would use the first category that applied to the effect being used.  A wand of paralyzation, for example, could be PPD or Rod/Staff/Wand, but since PPD came first in the hierarchy that was the category that applied.  It also SUPERFICIALLY associated categories with ability scores.  For example, Breath Weapon was said to be reflective of dodging out of the way of the effect, thus also useful for similar situations of escape-by-movement such as avoiding trap effects.  That IMPLIED a connection to Dexterity, yet not only did it not then give modifiers FOR having a high dexterity, but Thief characters - unarguably oriented around having high dexterity - had the most abominably low Breath Weapon saves in the game.There were also simply VERY few modifiers to saves, which overwhelmingly made them about your characters level and class - and not much else.  Oh, and Spell was a catch-all category long before 2E specifically said that's what it was supposed to be.  Have a spell or effect that doesn't specifically fit a category?  Save vs. spell.  Wierd trap?  Save vs. spell.  Can I do this or that Mr. DM?  Save vs. spell.  Did my mother like me or hate me as a child?  Save vs. spell.  Can I find something to eat before I starve?  Save vs. spell.  Does this shoe fit me?  Save vs. spell.  The point being that you CANNOT assign any one ability score to the Spell category because it covers anything and everything under the sun simply because it HASN'T been specifically covered by another category.It is an entirely different model to organize saves according to an applicable ability score (with attending modifiers by the bushel) than by the source & effect categories given in 1E/2E (with few modifiers at all).  It's NOT just the naming.  If it were then the way it would be applicable is by the name "Saving Throw".  The very term comes from wargames predating the RPG.  The idea is that it's not an integral part of determining most effects.  You stand in the radius of the fire YOU ARE BURNED, end of story.  The Saving Throw is your last-ditch opportunity to literally SAVE yourself from all or some of those otherwise inevitable effects.  Nowadays it is seen as simply an externalized mechanic for describing the way magic even functions.  Old School says an escape from death and damage is just because your high-level fighter is a lucky S.O.B., is blessed by the gods, and is better at tuck-and-roll than anyone else.  New School says your fighter saves because level, class, abiltiy scores, protective items, race, and many more adjustments all explain how the magic or traps even work to begin with.</blockquote>

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