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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 7353795" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>All this applies only when you are fighting a military organized group, which normally implies intelligent humanoid creatures. It depends on the type of campaign you like to run, but the majority of monsters in the MM are <em>not</em>.</p><p></p><p>The blog I mentioned does explain how many creatures are <em>compelled</em> to fight to the death by fanaticism or unnatural compulsion (e.g. undead, who by the way are already dead), while for many others survival is paramount. </p><p></p><p>The question I raise is that IMXP the majority of DMs run <em>all</em> monsters fighting to the death by default, and the majority of players won't even think about retreating from a fight, but not because they understand that retreating is difficult... rather, because they assume they must either win every combat they couldn't avoid or gloriously die trying (and let's face it, most players just like fighting more than escape or avoidance!). The discussion probably requires to treat PCs and monsters somewhat separately.</p><p></p><p>In addition, I was wondering if a key part of the question is <em>when</em> it would make sense to retreat. One reason why retreating (from a D&D combat, not from a real-life battle) is difficult, might also be that by the time it even comes to the <em>players</em> minds, it's already too late and fleeing might result in just granting lots of free attacks to the opponents (but notice here how the idea that the opponents will invariably choose to pursue and take advantage of those attacks kind of implies that we're still stuck imagining a military-like situation that it's true only in some cases). But if we switch the focus to the monsters, it suddenly makes more sense that many of them would actually retreat quite early. </p><p></p><p>The crux of the problem is that probably most of us DMs don't take the time to consider the <em>purposes</em> of those involved in a combat. <strong>Survival</strong> is a primary purpose for the majority of creatures, minus undead (they're already dead), fiends et al (they can't really die), and fanatics (they might believe it's actually convenient to die). Mostly everyone else won't want to die. Proportions of the two categories within a campaign can vary a lot, but at least let's recognize that both camps exist. But then there is also the purpose of why the creatures are in a fight in the first place: whether they are hunting for food, defending their territory, or wanting something else can affect their retreat choice. For example, I don't think a tiger would attack the PCs thinking they are food, unless the tiger pretty much assumed (mistakenly, of course) that they would be an easy prey (predators don't target difficult preys!), so what's it going to do when it realizes that the PCs can fight back? Actually, it might even make sense for predator monsters to flee as soon as they take <em>any</em> damage, or at least any solid hit.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't like morale checks either, precisely because of what you say, and despite my fondness for randomness. I think it's better to <em>think</em> if and when the monsters would retreat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 7353795, member: 1465"] All this applies only when you are fighting a military organized group, which normally implies intelligent humanoid creatures. It depends on the type of campaign you like to run, but the majority of monsters in the MM are [I]not[/I]. The blog I mentioned does explain how many creatures are [I]compelled[/I] to fight to the death by fanaticism or unnatural compulsion (e.g. undead, who by the way are already dead), while for many others survival is paramount. The question I raise is that IMXP the majority of DMs run [I]all[/I] monsters fighting to the death by default, and the majority of players won't even think about retreating from a fight, but not because they understand that retreating is difficult... rather, because they assume they must either win every combat they couldn't avoid or gloriously die trying (and let's face it, most players just like fighting more than escape or avoidance!). The discussion probably requires to treat PCs and monsters somewhat separately. In addition, I was wondering if a key part of the question is [I]when[/I] it would make sense to retreat. One reason why retreating (from a D&D combat, not from a real-life battle) is difficult, might also be that by the time it even comes to the [I]players[/I] minds, it's already too late and fleeing might result in just granting lots of free attacks to the opponents (but notice here how the idea that the opponents will invariably choose to pursue and take advantage of those attacks kind of implies that we're still stuck imagining a military-like situation that it's true only in some cases). But if we switch the focus to the monsters, it suddenly makes more sense that many of them would actually retreat quite early. The crux of the problem is that probably most of us DMs don't take the time to consider the [I]purposes[/I] of those involved in a combat. [B]Survival[/B] is a primary purpose for the majority of creatures, minus undead (they're already dead), fiends et al (they can't really die), and fanatics (they might believe it's actually convenient to die). Mostly everyone else won't want to die. Proportions of the two categories within a campaign can vary a lot, but at least let's recognize that both camps exist. But then there is also the purpose of why the creatures are in a fight in the first place: whether they are hunting for food, defending their territory, or wanting something else can affect their retreat choice. For example, I don't think a tiger would attack the PCs thinking they are food, unless the tiger pretty much assumed (mistakenly, of course) that they would be an easy prey (predators don't target difficult preys!), so what's it going to do when it realizes that the PCs can fight back? Actually, it might even make sense for predator monsters to flee as soon as they take [I]any[/I] damage, or at least any solid hit. I don't like morale checks either, precisely because of what you say, and despite my fondness for randomness. I think it's better to [I]think[/I] if and when the monsters would retreat. [/QUOTE]
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