Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Narrative/Novel D&D...ND&D. Imagine if the game played just like the D&D novels?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Travis Henry" data-source="post: 7621306" data-attributes="member: 6985696"><p>I've been reading the Icewind Dale Trilogy. And one thing that struck me is how quick and picturesque the battles are compared to our slow 5E slugfests. Yeah, I know we could describe the blow-by-blow more imaginatively, but I'm speaking more of playing time. </p><p></p><p>Imagine if WotC (or someone) gathered all of the D&D Fiction: the Dragonlance Chronicles, the Drizzt and Elminster novel series, Gygax's Greyhawk novels...all of the D&D novels (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_fiction" target="_blank">here's a big list</a>). Plus all the DRAGON magazine short stories from over the years. And even the comic books and graphic novels...</p><p></p><p>...and read through them, with the intent of "reverse engineering" a new version of D&D which closely modeled the "novellic" experience.</p><p></p><p>Research questions:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In the stories, exactly how long does each battle take, as far as page-length / reading time? How does this compare to playing the same encounter with the TRPG?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">How long does it take to read an entire novel, compared to playing out those same events in TRPG form? There are existing examples for playtesting: the DL series of adventures, the Azure Bonds adventure, etc. For example, the Read Length website says it takes about <a href="https://www.readinglength.com/book/isbn-0786942460" target="_blank">7 hours to read the Crystal Shard</a>, and <a href="https://www.readinglength.com/book/isbn-0140115404" target="_blank">17.5 hours to read the entire three-volume Dragonlance Chronicles</a>.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Similarly, how long does it take to read a D&D short story or comic book?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A close reading reveals there are so many cool and colorful moves that seem to be specific to the races and classes as portrayed in a particular novel, which aren't quite modeled in the 5E ruleset. For example, Regis seems to have a knack for hitting adversaries in the groin. Yeah, I know from a TRPG standpoint, he just "hit for such-and-such hp of damage" and maybe knocked the opponent to 0hp (unconscious), or in 2E, he did a called shot. But ND&D would tease out these colorful moves and array them more explicitly as part of the game.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Can a PC do all the cool and quick stuff which the fiction characters can? (Strap a barrel of flaming oil on their back and jump on the shadow dragon's back?) What if they could? Or maybe they "can" do it in the existing ruleset, but it's not really baked into the game, but rather, relies on having an exceptionally talented DM who can translate yet another "grapple" or "12 points of damage" into a descriptive, imaginative scene. But what if these "novellic" moves were baked into the game itself, from the start?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Where known, would also need to take note of the official stats for the Fiction characters as they were during each story. Like, okay, at this character level (as a 1E Ranger 10), Drizzt slew three verbeegs in this amount of time, while in later adventures (as a 3E Ftr10/Rgr5/Bbn1, or as a 4E 21st-level Skirmisher NPC) he could defeat such-and-such monsters in so many rounds.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cut every D&D novel into pieces (paragraphs and sentences) which are equated to specific D&D actions. And then compile those pieces into a Narrative D&D sourcebook. Like: these are all the ways which ND&D described lighting a torch, these are all the ways which ND&D described the blow which felled a giant (sorted by bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing weapon), etc.</li> </ul><p></p><p>And then, <strong>craft a new version of D&D which closely models this experience</strong>. I call this <strong>ND&D...Novel D&D or Narrative D&D</strong>.</p><p></p><p>Narrative D&D would be a different expression of the D&D brand, complementary (and convertible to) the 5E TRPG. (In a similar way that the various D&D-branded boardgames or parlour games are distinct from the TRPG, but are still "D&D experiences.")</p><p></p><p>I'm only beginning to consider what such a game would look like.</p><p></p><p>Some of the main features are:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Battles are resolved in a matter of a few minutes, in real time.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">An entire novel (such as the Crystal Shard) can be played through in 7 hours. In contrast, at our 5E table,<em> a single battle </em>usually takes up a big chunk of our 2.5 hour session.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">More extensive "boxed text." Yeah I know some people have been opposed to boxed text, but in ND&D, the goal is to basically to "play a novel." So we want to hear the masterful authorial verbiage. Cut-and-paste keyed scene descriptions from the novels themselves. For example, our group ventured into Neverwinter Wood in the Starter Set adventure - but we didn't know anything about it (not being FR experts), and so the DM described it as just another dense dark wood. In ND&D, there'd be a more extensive "boxed text" keyed to Neverwinter Wood (and various sites therein) which are taken from existing D&D Fiction.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Such a game would be sort of a cross between a "choose-your-own-adventure" novel and a TRPG, but it'd still be a TRPG. Your character could still do anything.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Relies on cut-scenes for most travel, also for much of the dungeon exploration. Like: okay, "You've been travelling on the road for a week." "Or, you travelled through the upper halls and here you are at the dragon's lair." Yeah I know it's sometimes done that way in the RPG as well, but in ND&D that would be standard. I mean, how long does would it take for a 5E party to explore Mithral Hall compared to how long it took for me to read of the Companions' exploration of Mithral Hall in Streams of Silver? Yeah, in standard TRPG, this could seem railroady, but in ND&D, we assume the players want to play the story which is offered.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Has flashback scenes.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Statwise", a character sheet might be little more than a picturesque list of moves which are gleaned from the actual D&D Fiction itself (e.g. Halfling Groin Bash, followed by actual "boxed text" which the player reads off (or improvises), replacing "Regis" with your own character's name, and fill in your own weapon instead of Regis' "mace.").</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">For character creation, maybe there'd be a big list of all the moves ever displayed by heroes of D&D Fiction (broken down by race and class) and then you roll to see which moves you start with.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spells would include actual verbal components (Light = "Shirak!") and somatic components (the player actually waves their hand or whatever) (along with descriptions of material components, if they actually come into D&D Fiction), taken from actual D&D Fiction. (The ND&D sourcebook would include every example of spells cast from every D&D novel.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At the end of each "novel", the character gets one more move.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Perhaps, characters can't die??? Or if they do, then a new character takes on their legacy (e.g. there's some in-story connection between the old and new character; and starts with the same character level)?</li> </ul><p></p><p>Well, it would be a big project. But I'd prefer that my D&D sessions covered ground as quickly and as picturesquely as a D&D novel, short story, or comic book.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Travis Henry, post: 7621306, member: 6985696"] I've been reading the Icewind Dale Trilogy. And one thing that struck me is how quick and picturesque the battles are compared to our slow 5E slugfests. Yeah, I know we could describe the blow-by-blow more imaginatively, but I'm speaking more of playing time. Imagine if WotC (or someone) gathered all of the D&D Fiction: the Dragonlance Chronicles, the Drizzt and Elminster novel series, Gygax's Greyhawk novels...all of the D&D novels ([URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_fiction"]here's a big list[/URL]). Plus all the DRAGON magazine short stories from over the years. And even the comic books and graphic novels... ...and read through them, with the intent of "reverse engineering" a new version of D&D which closely modeled the "novellic" experience. Research questions: [LIST] [*]In the stories, exactly how long does each battle take, as far as page-length / reading time? How does this compare to playing the same encounter with the TRPG? [*]How long does it take to read an entire novel, compared to playing out those same events in TRPG form? There are existing examples for playtesting: the DL series of adventures, the Azure Bonds adventure, etc. For example, the Read Length website says it takes about [URL="https://www.readinglength.com/book/isbn-0786942460"]7 hours to read the Crystal Shard[/URL], and [URL="https://www.readinglength.com/book/isbn-0140115404"]17.5 hours to read the entire three-volume Dragonlance Chronicles[/URL]. [*]Similarly, how long does it take to read a D&D short story or comic book? [*]A close reading reveals there are so many cool and colorful moves that seem to be specific to the races and classes as portrayed in a particular novel, which aren't quite modeled in the 5E ruleset. For example, Regis seems to have a knack for hitting adversaries in the groin. Yeah, I know from a TRPG standpoint, he just "hit for such-and-such hp of damage" and maybe knocked the opponent to 0hp (unconscious), or in 2E, he did a called shot. But ND&D would tease out these colorful moves and array them more explicitly as part of the game. [*]Can a PC do all the cool and quick stuff which the fiction characters can? (Strap a barrel of flaming oil on their back and jump on the shadow dragon's back?) What if they could? Or maybe they "can" do it in the existing ruleset, but it's not really baked into the game, but rather, relies on having an exceptionally talented DM who can translate yet another "grapple" or "12 points of damage" into a descriptive, imaginative scene. But what if these "novellic" moves were baked into the game itself, from the start? [*]Where known, would also need to take note of the official stats for the Fiction characters as they were during each story. Like, okay, at this character level (as a 1E Ranger 10), Drizzt slew three verbeegs in this amount of time, while in later adventures (as a 3E Ftr10/Rgr5/Bbn1, or as a 4E 21st-level Skirmisher NPC) he could defeat such-and-such monsters in so many rounds. [*]Cut every D&D novel into pieces (paragraphs and sentences) which are equated to specific D&D actions. And then compile those pieces into a Narrative D&D sourcebook. Like: these are all the ways which ND&D described lighting a torch, these are all the ways which ND&D described the blow which felled a giant (sorted by bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing weapon), etc. [/LIST] And then, [B]craft a new version of D&D which closely models this experience[/B]. I call this [B]ND&D...Novel D&D or Narrative D&D[/B]. Narrative D&D would be a different expression of the D&D brand, complementary (and convertible to) the 5E TRPG. (In a similar way that the various D&D-branded boardgames or parlour games are distinct from the TRPG, but are still "D&D experiences.") I'm only beginning to consider what such a game would look like. Some of the main features are: [LIST] [*]Battles are resolved in a matter of a few minutes, in real time. [*]An entire novel (such as the Crystal Shard) can be played through in 7 hours. In contrast, at our 5E table,[I] a single battle [/I]usually takes up a big chunk of our 2.5 hour session. [*]More extensive "boxed text." Yeah I know some people have been opposed to boxed text, but in ND&D, the goal is to basically to "play a novel." So we want to hear the masterful authorial verbiage. Cut-and-paste keyed scene descriptions from the novels themselves. For example, our group ventured into Neverwinter Wood in the Starter Set adventure - but we didn't know anything about it (not being FR experts), and so the DM described it as just another dense dark wood. In ND&D, there'd be a more extensive "boxed text" keyed to Neverwinter Wood (and various sites therein) which are taken from existing D&D Fiction. [*]Such a game would be sort of a cross between a "choose-your-own-adventure" novel and a TRPG, but it'd still be a TRPG. Your character could still do anything. [*]Relies on cut-scenes for most travel, also for much of the dungeon exploration. Like: okay, "You've been travelling on the road for a week." "Or, you travelled through the upper halls and here you are at the dragon's lair." Yeah I know it's sometimes done that way in the RPG as well, but in ND&D that would be standard. I mean, how long does would it take for a 5E party to explore Mithral Hall compared to how long it took for me to read of the Companions' exploration of Mithral Hall in Streams of Silver? Yeah, in standard TRPG, this could seem railroady, but in ND&D, we assume the players want to play the story which is offered. [*]Has flashback scenes. [*]"Statwise", a character sheet might be little more than a picturesque list of moves which are gleaned from the actual D&D Fiction itself (e.g. Halfling Groin Bash, followed by actual "boxed text" which the player reads off (or improvises), replacing "Regis" with your own character's name, and fill in your own weapon instead of Regis' "mace."). [*]For character creation, maybe there'd be a big list of all the moves ever displayed by heroes of D&D Fiction (broken down by race and class) and then you roll to see which moves you start with. [*]Spells would include actual verbal components (Light = "Shirak!") and somatic components (the player actually waves their hand or whatever) (along with descriptions of material components, if they actually come into D&D Fiction), taken from actual D&D Fiction. (The ND&D sourcebook would include every example of spells cast from every D&D novel.) [*]At the end of each "novel", the character gets one more move. [*]Perhaps, characters can't die??? Or if they do, then a new character takes on their legacy (e.g. there's some in-story connection between the old and new character; and starts with the same character level)? [/LIST] Well, it would be a big project. But I'd prefer that my D&D sessions covered ground as quickly and as picturesquely as a D&D novel, short story, or comic book. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Narrative/Novel D&D...ND&D. Imagine if the game played just like the D&D novels?
Top