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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6152396" data-attributes="member: 6681948">Or &quot;Having a Climb skill sufficient to succeed if you roll a 10 or higher allows you to succeed all the way up, under ordinary circumstances&quot;?&nbsp; Which, I believe, is called &quot;taking 10&quot;.&nbsp; I don't see the need for a second mechanic to allow a skill roll to continue succeeding.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Right.&nbsp;&nbsp;So we'll just start casting a spell during this audience and nothing will happen?&nbsp; If the patron makes his save, he will just go on chatting, or perhaps declare the audience over and let the Wizard be on his way?&nbsp; Or will he summon his guards an have the wizard executed for his effrontry?&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;First off, Charm does not equal &quot;bowing and scraping&quot;.&nbsp; Second, no one notices the sudden change of heart overnight, and thinks to cast Detect Magic (or just makes a good enough Sense Motive check to discern he is enchanted)?&nbsp; The Charm can be dispelled as well.&nbsp; Its duration will end.&nbsp; And what happens when an opposing Wizard uses the same spell?&nbsp; In my view, at least, attempting and failing with diplomacy carries much less negative consequences than if that spell fails, or when that spell ends.&nbsp; It also shifted the attitude of the target, and there's no reason it should shift back unless you GIVE the patron a reason.&nbsp;&nbsp;So, you've never been in the city before?&nbsp; The spell clearly states &quot;You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination.&quot;&nbsp; Where did that clear idea come from, when you have never been there?&nbsp; An hour of scrying to study a location will do the trick - what scrying spell will you use to gain that knowledge?&nbsp; How many of you need to get into that city (Teleport limits the numbers, remember?).&nbsp;&nbsp; Do any people see you appear?&nbsp; So much for &quot;undetected&quot; when a hue and cry is raised about that group which just appeared out of nowhere.&nbsp; Seems to me there could be good reasons to arrange for more mundane transport. Oh, and watch out for those &quot;similar area&quot; mishaps - how long will it take to figure out you teleported into the wrong city?&nbsp;But let's assume it does work - here we are in the city.&nbsp; Now we can pursue whatever our goal was in the city.&nbsp; What does it matter which character got a minute of screen time for either &quot;I cast Teleport&quot; or &quot;I arrange to be smuggled into the city&quot;?&nbsp; That's nice - on with the game!&nbsp; Clearly, if the party has the Teleport spell, they will use it.&nbsp; The GM, then, should be designing scenarios around the fact that the players have access to this movement ability.&nbsp; Let's say it's really essential - we need to get to the city 750 miles away by nightfall to prevent the Horrible Ritual.&nbsp; Would that event have occured if the players lacked the ability to get there?&nbsp;&quot;OK, since you first level rookies can't get there in time, the world ends.&nbsp; Make new characters.&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;WOW - that was the best campaign ever!&quot; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm&nbsp; &nbsp; :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" />&nbsp;And I guess if those dice come up wrong, we've used our Teleport spell and can't get there - the whole campaign comes down to a single random roll.&nbsp; If the dice come up wrong, the campaign ends?&nbsp;What?&nbsp; It doesn't matter anyway?&nbsp; Sorry, guys, the villains of the campaign hired a wizard who Teleported to your Inn (just like you were going to teleport to the city), Polymorphed into a mouse, snuck into the wizard's room and cast Charm Monster (several times).&nbsp; Your party wizard wouldn't dream of ruining his new best friend's birthday party by Teleporting you into the city to disrupt it!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6152396, member: 6681948"] Or "Having a Climb skill sufficient to succeed if you roll a 10 or higher allows you to succeed all the way up, under ordinary circumstances"? Which, I believe, is called "taking 10". I don't see the need for a second mechanic to allow a skill roll to continue succeeding. Right. So we'll just start casting a spell during this audience and nothing will happen? If the patron makes his save, he will just go on chatting, or perhaps declare the audience over and let the Wizard be on his way? Or will he summon his guards an have the wizard executed for his effrontry? First off, Charm does not equal "bowing and scraping". Second, no one notices the sudden change of heart overnight, and thinks to cast Detect Magic (or just makes a good enough Sense Motive check to discern he is enchanted)? The Charm can be dispelled as well. Its duration will end. And what happens when an opposing Wizard uses the same spell? In my view, at least, attempting and failing with diplomacy carries much less negative consequences than if that spell fails, or when that spell ends. It also shifted the attitude of the target, and there's no reason it should shift back unless you GIVE the patron a reason. So, you've never been in the city before? The spell clearly states "You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination." Where did that clear idea come from, when you have never been there? An hour of scrying to study a location will do the trick - what scrying spell will you use to gain that knowledge? How many of you need to get into that city (Teleport limits the numbers, remember?). Do any people see you appear? So much for "undetected" when a hue and cry is raised about that group which just appeared out of nowhere. Seems to me there could be good reasons to arrange for more mundane transport. Oh, and watch out for those "similar area" mishaps - how long will it take to figure out you teleported into the wrong city? But let's assume it does work - here we are in the city. Now we can pursue whatever our goal was in the city. What does it matter which character got a minute of screen time for either "I cast Teleport" or "I arrange to be smuggled into the city"? That's nice - on with the game! Clearly, if the party has the Teleport spell, they will use it. The GM, then, should be designing scenarios around the fact that the players have access to this movement ability. Let's say it's really essential - we need to get to the city 750 miles away by nightfall to prevent the Horrible Ritual. Would that event have occured if the players lacked the ability to get there? "OK, since you first level rookies can't get there in time, the world ends. Make new characters." "WOW - that was the best campaign ever!" :erm: And I guess if those dice come up wrong, we've used our Teleport spell and can't get there - the whole campaign comes down to a single random roll. If the dice come up wrong, the campaign ends? What? It doesn't matter anyway? Sorry, guys, the villains of the campaign hired a wizard who Teleported to your Inn (just like you were going to teleport to the city), Polymorphed into a mouse, snuck into the wizard's room and cast Charm Monster (several times). Your party wizard wouldn't dream of ruining his new best friend's birthday party by Teleporting you into the city to disrupt it! [/QUOTE]

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