Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6152661" data-attributes="member: 6681948">An opposed CHA check.  How good is your spellcaster's CHA?  As I recall, he had little or no diplomatic skills.  I'd expect important leaders to by and large have pretty good CHA scores.  But yes, you can force him do "do things he would not normally do".  Which would seem to make it even more likely those familiar with the patron become suspicious of his actions.  Now, here in the Real World, we'd probably be confused by the fact he just isn't acting consistent with his usual self.  In a D&D world, considering the possibility of enchantment as very real seems much more likely.  And how many spellcasters can manage a Detect Magic spell?  Then there's that Sense Motive check - even the completely non-magical can detect that the target is under the effect of an Enchantment spell, although the DC is pretty stiff.See above.The SRD tells me retries are So I may be able to change his mind, or I may be able to try a different tack.  By the same token, the Charm Person spell is silent about re-trying that opposed CHA check.  Given Charm predisposes the target to favour the caster, not dominate the target (Sense Motive is way better against Dominate), I would suggest re-tries of that opposed CHA check would suffer from similar problems.  But, if you want to give the most spellcaster-favourable interpretation to the rules (while arguing spellcasters are overpowered, of course), then the repeated oppose CHA check finally succeeding seems like another reason for observers to question what's going on with the target of the spell.Looking at the SR, I note: - Scry lasts 1 minute per level.  You need to observe the area for 1 hour according to Teleport. - You must Scry a creature, not a location.  A lack of knowledge of the person makes it easier for him to save so the scry spell fails, and you can't just pick "some random slumdweller", as you need either knowledge of, or a connection to, the target. - The area you can see is pretty limited - about 10' around the creature targeted. - If the creature moves, you don't get the full duration of the spell to study even that limited location.   - If the creature saves, you need to try again tomorrow.Scrying is a bit of a "homebody" spell.  It's not that easy to drag "A mirror of finely wrought and highly polished silver costing not less than 1,000 gp. The mirror must be at least 2 feet by 4 feet." along with you through the dungeon or wilderness.  It's easier for the Druid, though.  But he doesn't cast Teleport.By the time you get to study the desired area for an hour through Scry, I'm thinking the rogue could have made a lot of progress with his contacts.At 9th level, that's you and three other Medium or smaller creatures.  As the spell is "personal and touch", your familiar should be able to share the teleport.  But the Druid's or Ranger's animal companion, anyone else's familiar, etc. is another creature (let's hope neither they nor any party member is Large).  The size of your party, including any henchmen that we do want accompanying us, anyone we need to bring with us depending on the adventure goals, etc. adds caster levels required to transport the entire group.I expect you'll be much more noticable materializing from thin air (regardless of your appearance) than departing the ship with cloaks up against the sea breeze.  Invisibility will at least delay the appearance.  So you arrive in the slums, with everyone standing within 10' of the wizard (no biggie - they had to be in physical contact to teleport anyway).  There's a few people in the alley.  How are you communicating which direction to travel in to find a hiding place to reappear?  Remember, anyone who gets more than 10' away reappears.  And roll your Stealth checks so no one hears that invisible movement.If the adventurers having a 5th level spell (they aren't that hard to come by - every PC hitting 9th level can find the spell easily) makes them that intimidating and fearsome, why do they need to slip into the city detected in the first place?If you use the spell on a regular basis, 1 in 14 "similar area mishaps" seems significant.  1 in 4 failures seems more significant.  And I'm still waiting for that easy "studied it carefully for at least one hour" scrying spell to be cited.Those things the characters can do trivially are not actually "problems".  At 1st level, I don't have the PC's fight 6 mosquitos and consider that a challenge.  6 orcs?  That's a challenge.  At 5th level, 6 orcs are easily swept aside, so they get ignored, or dismissed as a trivial challenge.  When the party has access to long distance travel magic, travelling hundreds of miles is no longer a challenge - it's a trivial matter, the ease of overcoming which serves no real purpose, unless it is to highlight the power of the party as compared to the average commoner.  So is the Fighter with his +12 Intimidate shutting up the nosy neighbour.  At this level, they need more powerful challenges.By making the hiring of smugglers a risky, uncertain venture despite the skills and network of contacts of the rogue, while brushing off the RAW risks and limitations of teleportation, you trivialize the abilities of the rogue, and enhance the power of the wizard.  That's not what the rules say, it's you minimizing or ignoring the limits of the spells by RAW, but refusing to allow the rogue the same leeway simply because his abilities are mundane, rather than magical.  If the city guards are so terrified of the power to rip a hole in reality, why are the smugglers not remotely intimidated by the party?Probably from a GM who is determined not to have the PC's abilities override the challenge he had in mind.  That's the only context I raised the possibility of a Teleport Redirect or Teleport Block in.  However, you would think, with Teleport being omnipresent and solving ever problem with getting at the Bad Guys, there would be more spells and magic items out there to frustrate Teleportation.</blockquote>

Verification