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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6153352" data-attributes="member: 42582">In talking about &quot;engaging the scene&quot; with the orcs, or the &quot;big bad&quot;, I'm utterly taking it for granted that combat and other physical conflict is a site of roleplaying, expression of character etc. If that's not the case then combat has no place in a game where the point of play is to engage with the fiction.What are RPGs that I think facilitate combat along these lines? The ones I know are RM, 4e and BW (all crunchy/tactical), plus the abstract less tactical systems in games like HeroWars/Quest or MHRP. RQ aspires to this, but in my view it doesn't have the mechanics to deliver precisely because it is so impervious to metagaming.Well, that's not true if the wizard has another polymorph spell. More chickens. Or if the wizard has a teleport spell, s/he can teleport the party to a door with something more interesting behind it (perhaps using divination magic to locate said door).I think this is the sort of stuff&nbsp; [MENTION=27570]sheadunne[/MENTION] is talking about, at least.&nbsp;I explained the comparison I'm making upthread. RPGs with &quot;abstract&quot; scene resolution mechanics like MHRP, HW/Q, and (I suspect) FATE aren't heavily constrained by infiction geography in their action resolution. D&amp;D is. So using abilities in D&amp;D that radically change the geographic location of a PC (eg teleport) are likely to be scene-ending. Whereas in those other systems, they don't have to be.That's all.If you know ways to make D&amp;D handle geographically separated PCs and opponents within a single scene, I'd like to hear it! As I mentioned upthread, I have tried this in 4e with limited success at best.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6153352, member: 42582"] In talking about "engaging the scene" with the orcs, or the "big bad", I'm utterly taking it for granted that combat and other physical conflict is a site of roleplaying, expression of character etc. If that's not the case then combat has no place in a game where the point of play is to engage with the fiction. What are RPGs that I think facilitate combat along these lines? The ones I know are RM, 4e and BW (all crunchy/tactical), plus the abstract less tactical systems in games like HeroWars/Quest or MHRP. RQ aspires to this, but in my view it doesn't have the mechanics to deliver precisely because it is so impervious to metagaming. Well, that's not true if the wizard has another polymorph spell. More chickens. Or if the wizard has a teleport spell, s/he can teleport the party to a door with something more interesting behind it (perhaps using divination magic to locate said door). I think this is the sort of stuff [MENTION=27570]sheadunne[/MENTION] is talking about, at least. I explained the comparison I'm making upthread. RPGs with "abstract" scene resolution mechanics like MHRP, HW/Q, and (I suspect) FATE aren't heavily constrained by infiction geography in their action resolution. D&D is. So using abilities in D&D that radically change the geographic location of a PC (eg teleport) are likely to be scene-ending. Whereas in those other systems, they don't have to be. That's all. If you know ways to make D&D handle geographically separated PCs and opponents within a single scene, I'd like to hear it! As I mentioned upthread, I have tried this in 4e with limited success at best. [/QUOTE]

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