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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6155223" data-attributes="member: 42582">I'm still very puzzled by this, for the same sort of reason as&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=5143]Majoru Oakheart[/MENTION] gives in the post above this one.The difference between 1st and 3rd person is very superficial. As a GM or a player, I might sometimes use 3rd person (&quot;Grok says XYZ&quot; or &quot;Black Dougal does ABC&quot;) and sometimes 1st person (As Grok &quot;XYZ&quot;; as Black Dougal &quot;I do ABC&quot;). It's a rhetorical choice that is often made on the spur of the moment.The decision about what Grok says, or what Black Dougal does, can be motivated for exactly the same reason: I decide, as GM, that Grok says XYZ because I think that will push the players' buttons; I decide, as the player of Black Dougal, that Black Dougal does ABC because I think that fits best with the character that has been established, through play, for Black Dougal. There is no particular connection between this non-superifical decision, and the superficial decision about 3rd vs 1st person description of a character's speech or action.So unless I am badly misunderstanding you, you are saying that the difference between &quot;narrating&quot; and &quot;roleplaying&quot; is nothing but a superficial rhetorical difference in 3rd vs 1st person, that in no way corresponds to any deep difference in play purpose or playstyle. If I've got you right, that's fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't seem a very interesting sense in which roleplaying is not narrating, because your stipulative definitions aren't capturing anything but a superficial rhetorical matter.But it seemed to me that you were trying to say something more substantial. In which case, I'm definitely failing to work out what that is.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6155223, member: 42582"] I'm still very puzzled by this, for the same sort of reason as [MENTION=5143]Majoru Oakheart[/MENTION] gives in the post above this one. The difference between 1st and 3rd person is very superficial. As a GM or a player, I might sometimes use 3rd person ("Grok says XYZ" or "Black Dougal does ABC") and sometimes 1st person (As Grok "XYZ"; as Black Dougal "I do ABC"). It's a rhetorical choice that is often made on the spur of the moment. The decision about what Grok says, or what Black Dougal does, can be motivated for exactly the same reason: I decide, as GM, that Grok says XYZ because I think that will push the players' buttons; I decide, as the player of Black Dougal, that Black Dougal does ABC because I think that fits best with the character that has been established, through play, for Black Dougal. There is no particular connection between this non-superifical decision, and the superficial decision about 3rd vs 1st person description of a character's speech or action. So unless I am badly misunderstanding you, you are saying that the difference between "narrating" and "roleplaying" is nothing but a superficial rhetorical difference in 3rd vs 1st person, that in no way corresponds to any deep difference in play purpose or playstyle. If I've got you right, that's fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't seem a very [I]interesting[/I] sense in which roleplaying is not narrating, because your stipulative definitions aren't capturing anything but a superficial rhetorical matter. But it seemed to me that you were trying to say something more substantial. In which case, I'm definitely failing to work out what that is. [/QUOTE]

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