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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Narrative Space Options for non-spellcasters
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<blockquote data-quote="Starfox" data-source="post: 6147400" data-attributes="member: 2303"><p>Mutants and Masterminds has a nice little invention. Whenever the GM there feels he has to override some character's effect on the plot he can do so - at the 2expense" of handing out a hero point. These hero points can then be used in the game to gain a substantial but not completely domineering benefit. So if the DM wants the players to travel trough the dark woods, and the Wizard says "Lets teleport", the DM says something like "nice try" and hands out a hero point. This is a major improvement over just saying "Sorry, you can't, it would derail the plot" or even to finding some in-game retcon solution like inventing a country-wide teleport ward - the player is getting recognition that his action was intelligent and potentially workable, but can't be allowed to work for plot reasons. Of course, this is also railroading, so it must be used with care - different players' sensibilities here are different.</p><p></p><p>Something very similar should be possible to do with Fate Core's adventure theme descriptors (descriptor is not the term they use, but I can't recall the proper term on top of my head). If the descriptor for the adventure is "Dark forest", then any attempt to simply teleport past can be negated by invoking the descriptor.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is a good idea for campaigns in which Leadership works thematically. Influence on society gives an effect on the narrative similar to that of spells. And who are described as the nobility of most fantasy worlds? Fighters! But the DnD fighter doesn't have the tools to be a leader - neither skills or class abilities or an incentive to be charismatic. It also meshes into the dominion rules from 1E - fighters, clerics, and rogues got automatic followers at high levels, mages didn't. </p><p></p><p>Still, this will not suit all games. In a pure dungeon crawl, minions are not going to do you much good. Ok, in some old-school versions of dungeoneering it might, but spending followers as trap detectors or lantern bearers will cut into some players idea of heroism. Do we have other ideas for"narrative space" options for the martial classes? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Basically, all classes in 3E are skill starved. Yes, this includes Rogues. The one exception is Wizards, who with their short skill list and massive intelligence can splurge on knowledge skills. This is not good balance. Pathfinder ameliorated this somewhat by combining rogue skills so that fewer skills do the work of many, but the issue is still there. A standard house rule around here is to give all classes 2 extra skill points per level.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Starfox, post: 6147400, member: 2303"] Mutants and Masterminds has a nice little invention. Whenever the GM there feels he has to override some character's effect on the plot he can do so - at the 2expense" of handing out a hero point. These hero points can then be used in the game to gain a substantial but not completely domineering benefit. So if the DM wants the players to travel trough the dark woods, and the Wizard says "Lets teleport", the DM says something like "nice try" and hands out a hero point. This is a major improvement over just saying "Sorry, you can't, it would derail the plot" or even to finding some in-game retcon solution like inventing a country-wide teleport ward - the player is getting recognition that his action was intelligent and potentially workable, but can't be allowed to work for plot reasons. Of course, this is also railroading, so it must be used with care - different players' sensibilities here are different. Something very similar should be possible to do with Fate Core's adventure theme descriptors (descriptor is not the term they use, but I can't recall the proper term on top of my head). If the descriptor for the adventure is "Dark forest", then any attempt to simply teleport past can be negated by invoking the descriptor. This is a good idea for campaigns in which Leadership works thematically. Influence on society gives an effect on the narrative similar to that of spells. And who are described as the nobility of most fantasy worlds? Fighters! But the DnD fighter doesn't have the tools to be a leader - neither skills or class abilities or an incentive to be charismatic. It also meshes into the dominion rules from 1E - fighters, clerics, and rogues got automatic followers at high levels, mages didn't. Still, this will not suit all games. In a pure dungeon crawl, minions are not going to do you much good. Ok, in some old-school versions of dungeoneering it might, but spending followers as trap detectors or lantern bearers will cut into some players idea of heroism. Do we have other ideas for"narrative space" options for the martial classes? Basically, all classes in 3E are skill starved. Yes, this includes Rogues. The one exception is Wizards, who with their short skill list and massive intelligence can splurge on knowledge skills. This is not good balance. Pathfinder ameliorated this somewhat by combining rogue skills so that fewer skills do the work of many, but the issue is still there. A standard house rule around here is to give all classes 2 extra skill points per level. [/QUOTE]
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