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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Narrative Space Options for non-spellcasters
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6149829" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>My understanding of 3E maths is that making saving throws is quite hard.</p><p></p><p>Eg at 1st level a fighter's Will save might be +1 at best, I would have thought (WIS of 12 or 13) whereas the DC against a Charm Person spell would be 10+1 (for level) +3 or 4 (for a 16 or 18 INT) = 14 or 15. So around a 1/3 chance to save. And the DC will scale more quickly than the save bonus.</p><p></p><p>If you are making save DCs of low level spells higher in your game, I'm surprised that you don't find casters stronger than you do.</p><p></p><p>No. It assumes that <em>sometimes</em> the players (and their PCs) can control the pace. The more that "sometimes" trends towards "often", the stronger this use of Teleport becomes.</p><p></p><p>London to Prague is less than 650 miles, from London to Warsaw less than 900. That covers your basic pseudo-European campaign.</p><p></p><p>The distance from London to Moscow is less than 1600 miles, from Hong Kong to Tokyo is less than 1800 miles - so I can do these jumps in two hops, or from a base half-way between the two locations can adventure in either. That covers a more far-ranging pseudo-European campaign, or a pseudo-East Asian one.</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying that it's impossible that distance should matter, but 900 miles is a long way within the context of a fantasy pseudo-mediaeval setting.</p><p></p><p>I the last campaign that featured PCs doing this, the PCs lived in the Imperial palace, working as servitors/advisors to the Great Kingdom. That is a hard safe haven to ambush!</p><p></p><p>More generally, I think introducing game elements that depend for a fictionally-established/mediated balance of terror to ensure their playability is not a recipe for stable design. You don't need to tweak the parameters of the fiction very much for the balance to break down (as when the PCs live in the Imperial Palace).</p><p></p><p>It may be that, within the fiction, the PCs progress slower. But in my experience players care about the rate of progression in the real world, not in the fiction.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6149829, member: 42582"] My understanding of 3E maths is that making saving throws is quite hard. Eg at 1st level a fighter's Will save might be +1 at best, I would have thought (WIS of 12 or 13) whereas the DC against a Charm Person spell would be 10+1 (for level) +3 or 4 (for a 16 or 18 INT) = 14 or 15. So around a 1/3 chance to save. And the DC will scale more quickly than the save bonus. If you are making save DCs of low level spells higher in your game, I'm surprised that you don't find casters stronger than you do. No. It assumes that [I]sometimes[/I] the players (and their PCs) can control the pace. The more that "sometimes" trends towards "often", the stronger this use of Teleport becomes. London to Prague is less than 650 miles, from London to Warsaw less than 900. That covers your basic pseudo-European campaign. The distance from London to Moscow is less than 1600 miles, from Hong Kong to Tokyo is less than 1800 miles - so I can do these jumps in two hops, or from a base half-way between the two locations can adventure in either. That covers a more far-ranging pseudo-European campaign, or a pseudo-East Asian one. I'm not saying that it's impossible that distance should matter, but 900 miles is a long way within the context of a fantasy pseudo-mediaeval setting. I the last campaign that featured PCs doing this, the PCs lived in the Imperial palace, working as servitors/advisors to the Great Kingdom. That is a hard safe haven to ambush! More generally, I think introducing game elements that depend for a fictionally-established/mediated balance of terror to ensure their playability is not a recipe for stable design. You don't need to tweak the parameters of the fiction very much for the balance to break down (as when the PCs live in the Imperial Palace). It may be that, within the fiction, the PCs progress slower. But in my experience players care about the rate of progression in the real world, not in the fiction. [/QUOTE]
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