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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6150217" data-attributes="member: 17106">Can't say I was aware that Wall of Thorns was that powerful as written. However, it seems to be that it is essentially a two-dimensional spell, and that an enterprising character could climb/jump up the wall and jump into the trees overhead, or perhaps just scramble over top (the text is not clear on this aspect of the wall, but it seems like something these players would have tried). Also, the ranger has woodland stride (a nonmagical low-level ability), which effectively negates the spell, and is strong enough to carry other characters (which is a cheesy but legit RAW way of getting them out of the area). Again, one or two rounds of running. The caster spent a round creating it in the first place to barely accomplish anything.We're going awfully far into the details of how I run my particular campaign (as opposed to a generic statement about the game as a whole), but I do not allow my druids spontaneous summoning (and I use the spontaneous casting variant). My druids generally don't do summoning; they could, but those spells are not useful often enough to justify taking if you don't get them for free. And in this case, that full round spent summoning would have been a very dangerous round for the caster, and he would have run the risk of being disrupted.They're all around low 30's I think, but that's before all that fighting defensively/combat expertise stuff they do and my TB combat reactions. They're 10th level characters, and all of the sort that value AC. And those air elementals target ref saves, which are strong among the light warrior types.A few people have taken on this exercise of trying to optimize this scenario, and I'm not convinced that any of you would have done any better if you were controlling my NPC, knew what I knew, and had the time that I had (in-game). We're still solidly in two birds in a bush territory. You can try all these seemingly powerful things, but if they don't work, you run out of options fast.</blockquote>

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