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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6150699" data-attributes="member: 42582">My own experience is that, under classic D&D paradigms, it is typically easier for players of casters to get into this ahead of players of non-casters: in part because the players of casters have better resources for doing this (via their spells) - better in terms of both effectiveness and reliability - and in part because caster PCs tend to have better stats for this sort of stuff (esp mental rather than physical stats).I don't know how Adventurer, Conquerer, King, or Pathfinder via Kingmaker (?) AP and Ultimate Campaign, handle this. Do they offer solutions to the asymmetry I've pointed to?I understand each of these passage separately, but am not sure how you reconcile them. The "Surprise! It's me!" feat seems to involve a degree of retconning, and so I would have expected you to reject it to (but am happy that you don't!). Can you say more about how it fits with your broader "cause and effect" preference?Similar to above - I'd be interested to hear more about where, for you, the acceptable limits of abstraction lie.Fair question.For me, the comparison needs to be between (say) casting a Passwall spell and pulling out your trusty pick and crowbar; or (say) casting a Hold Monster spell and wrestling the dragon to the ground bare-handed. That is to say, calling out "Stop thief!" should have some chance of working, but the person with the feat/ability should, in mechanical terms, be guaranteed a far easier time of it.There are at least three ways, within D&D action resolution, that I can think of to make things easier: (1) less expensive in the action economy; (2) costs less gp; (3) requires an easier die roll (or perhaps none at all).Note that expense in the action economy is only loosely connected to time in the fiction - I'm thinking of (say) the exploration action economy that WotC is developing for Next. An example of (2) and (3) interacting from classic D&D is the scattering of food or treasure during evasion to increase your chance of success: a PC with a superior evasion ability would be able to get those sorts of bonuses without having to scatter coins.At the tactical level of resolution, an ability in 4e that the fighter PC in my group has and uses all the time is Mighty Sprint (an encounter skill power): requires training in Athletics (so in practice is available to fighters or rangers rather than clerics or wizards), grants +5 to Athletics checks during a move action (so makes the dice rolls easier), and permits +4 to movement for one move action and ignoring difficult terrain (so improves action economy). That ability doesn't stop any other PC trying to run, climb or jump but it gives the fighter PC a clear advantage in that domain.Until we start to see the mechanics for social interaction, evasion, etc I can't try to spell out the "Stop, thief!" ability in any detail - but I hope what I've said makes sense of how we could go about that task.I'm glad you thought of those LotR scenes - I had them in mind too!</blockquote>

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