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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6150941" data-attributes="member: 6681948">MAD?  As I see it, the fighter, qua Fighter, focuses on STR (DEX if he indends to be a light armored finesse fighter) primarily, CON (which is a benefit to every character who ever takes a hp penalty?, and fighters already have good FORT saves) and a 12 DEX (for non-finesse, heavy armor will cap your DEX bonus anyway).  The Wizard, among the least MAD classes, focuses on INT primarily, but still needs CON (hp and saves) and DEX (ranged touch attacks, AC and saves) at least as much as the fighter does.I agree it's very much cultural expectations.  How much do the existing non-combat feats get used?  Is there demand for more?  Books of combat feats sell.  How many characters of any class invest in those non-combat feats?How many GM's minimize or reject interaction skills in favour of "role playing it", making any investment in diplomacy of dubious, if any, value (but no one has to role play a Charm spell!).Even treated well, he was coerced by magic.  In my view, this starts off on the wrong foot, so he'd best be treated VERY well indeed.  Bringing him around shouldn't be much easier than bringing around a fellow kidnapped against his will, but "for his own good" - say, to get him away from the evil assassins he doesn't yet know about.  "There wasn't any time to explain".I keep hearing that without the spells being specified.  Charm and Dominate are exertions of force, not diplomatic tools.  Treated as such, the wizard finds use for diplomacy.And Bards lack both the wizard's spell repertoire and the fighter's combat skills.  Each class has strengths and weaknesses.  That does not mean a class which is geared to other areas primarily cannot be somewhat effective in a secondary area, but they need to devote resources to it. I'll be no help on the knight class - sorry.  I don't think everything should be about combat, though.  If the Fighter can make everything work out through a fight, why can't the rogue turn everything into a lock he must pick, or a trap he must disarm?  Give the Fighter the abiity to make every challenge about brute strength and combat prowess, and soon we will have a dozen threads complaining about the futility of playing anything but a fighter.  Or, alternatively, the charge often levied (rightly or wrongly  I'm not familiar enough with 4e to make that call, and it's not germane to the thread anyway) that all the characters have more or less the same abilities, with different names, so pick any class and it will be more or less the same.To the latter, I have no comment.  To the former, what other word would you use to define someone who solves every problem with a fistfight?Agreed on both counts - build up the disadvantaged classes, and an interesting discussion.  I don't know that "only fighters can unlock" is the answer, but feats could certainly have abilities unlocked only by, say, having some minimum BAB, base save bonus, ranks in one or more specific skills, or what have you, gearing them to specific classes.  If their resolution mechanic also favors a character strong in that area (sure, the L12 Wizard has +6 BAB now, but a +6 BAB aghainst CR 12 opponents still makes successful use of the feat unlikely - or mabe the result is something the figher wants and the wizard doesn't, like "the target of the feat will focus all his attacks on the feat user"), then the feat will favour that class/role/what have you.But I think Starfox' issue has to be resolved first - providing resources to enhance non-combat options is only beneficial if players want those non-combat options enough to use their resources to  buy them instead of combat enhancers.  Alternatively, I suppose a completely new set of resources (like bonus non-combat feats, or a separate track for non-combat feats) could be added so you have no choice - you either take these, or you get nothing at all.  Unless a +2 bonus to Diplomacy and Sense Motive is viewed as being as useful as +2 damage, the Fighter will keep taking Weapon Specialization and complaining that he can't be a Leader of Men and Ruler of the Kingdom because "the mechanics don't allow it".  The problem is that the mechanics don't allow it without giving something else up in exchange.</blockquote>

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