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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6152666" data-attributes="member: 6681948">I'd say I generally agree as well.&nbsp; However, a Fireball and a hail of arrows both have the same end result of inflicting damage to targets in an area, albeit with different sources and ancillary results (I don't burn the spellbook with a hail of arrows, for example, but Damage Reduction and Fire Resistance trade off between the two).&nbsp; The Rogue can't Teleport, but if we allow him to build a network of mundane contacts, he could be permitted to arrange stealthy transport and surreptitious entry to many locations (sure, not the throne room -&nbsp; but how do you get the needed familiarity to Teleport into the throne room?).&nbsp; Assuming no time pressure, that has a lot of the same benefits as Teleporting - and it's not limited to the rogue and 1 extra creature per 3 levels (less if any are Large) either.&nbsp; But we have to let the mundane abilities function.&nbsp; The rogue's contact network does the job, the smugglers don't betray the party, etc.&nbsp; In other words, the mundane needs reliability comparable to magic.&nbsp; Just like we would not suggest the Fighter keep his very reliable combat abilities, but impose a 50% failure chance on every spell cast in combat, we should not be accepting that magic never fails, while exploiting every possible failing in any non-magical ability.You know, I keep coming back to a HeroQuest (<a href="http://moondesignpublications.com/product/heroquest-core-rules" target="_blank">http://moondesignpublications.com/product/heroquest-core-rules</a>, not the boardgame series) approach.&nbsp; That's a pretty loose system where plaers name their abilities.&nbsp; So one might have Magic, a second might have Fire Magic and a third might have a Fireball.&nbsp; If all three want to use a Fireball to accomplish some task, the third gets an ordinary roll.&nbsp; The second takes a penalty, and the first a larger penalty.&nbsp; The most specific ability rolls normally, and broader abilities get a penalty.In a Supers setting, we had three classes of abilities, Normal, Extraordinary and SuperPower.&nbsp; A SuperPower will always beat a Normal ability, and an Extraordinary ability will take a penalty against a SuperPower.&nbsp; But there are situations and areas where Superpowers Just. Don't. Work.&nbsp; More frequent existence of Anti-Magic effects might do a lot to level the playing field if magic is truly perceived as &quot;overpowered&quot; compared to mundane abilities.&nbsp; That's another potential balancer, though I'm not a real fan of &quot;sometimes you're omnipotent and sometimes you're useless&quot; as a balancing mechanism.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6152666, member: 6681948"] I'd say I generally agree as well. However, a Fireball and a hail of arrows both have the same end result of inflicting damage to targets in an area, albeit with different sources and ancillary results (I don't burn the spellbook with a hail of arrows, for example, but Damage Reduction and Fire Resistance trade off between the two). The Rogue can't Teleport, but if we allow him to build a network of mundane contacts, he could be permitted to arrange stealthy transport and surreptitious entry to many locations (sure, not the throne room - but how do you get the needed familiarity to Teleport into the throne room?). Assuming no time pressure, that has a lot of the same benefits as Teleporting - and it's not limited to the rogue and 1 extra creature per 3 levels (less if any are Large) either. But we have to let the mundane abilities function. The rogue's contact network does the job, the smugglers don't betray the party, etc. In other words, the mundane needs reliability comparable to magic. Just like we would not suggest the Fighter keep his very reliable combat abilities, but impose a 50% failure chance on every spell cast in combat, we should not be accepting that magic never fails, while exploiting every possible failing in any non-magical ability. You know, I keep coming back to a HeroQuest ([url]http://moondesignpublications.com/product/heroquest-core-rules[/url], not the boardgame series) approach. That's a pretty loose system where plaers name their abilities. So one might have Magic, a second might have Fire Magic and a third might have a Fireball. If all three want to use a Fireball to accomplish some task, the third gets an ordinary roll. The second takes a penalty, and the first a larger penalty. The most specific ability rolls normally, and broader abilities get a penalty. In a Supers setting, we had three classes of abilities, Normal, Extraordinary and SuperPower. A SuperPower will always beat a Normal ability, and an Extraordinary ability will take a penalty against a SuperPower. But there are situations and areas where Superpowers Just. Don't. Work. More frequent existence of Anti-Magic effects might do a lot to level the playing field if magic is truly perceived as "overpowered" compared to mundane abilities. That's another potential balancer, though I'm not a real fan of "sometimes you're omnipotent and sometimes you're useless" as a balancing mechanism. [/QUOTE]

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