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Narrative Space Options for non-spellcasters
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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6153018" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>I suspect getting any answers we can agree on needs to start with agreeing on the question. What do we want that fighter to be able to do? If it's just "attract the attention of the monster so it attacks him", then we have several options for mechanics that will cause the monster to make one decision instead of another, and we can select from, say, a straight characteristic roll, a racial ability, a class feature, a skill (or use of an existing skill), a feat (whether with the existing feat structure or a structure that requires some choices be made from specific feat types), some other new mechanic and/or a combination (maybe it's a straight characteristic roll which some races get a bonus or penalty to, some classes get to use a diferent characteristic, and a feat can improve or modify). Now we have a fixed, RAW mechanic for this ability, and it is no eonger decided by the player indicating what he wants to do and the GM ruling on whether it works, or how we will determine success or failure.</p><p></p><p>Assuming that everyone agrees on what the RAW for this new mechanic means, and that it is a reasonable simulation of the desired ability, and that the character who did not devote the appropriate character resources to that ability can't do it (or just isn't as good at it if everone can do it), and that it is at least available to all characters who should be able to do that, then we have solved the problem - YAY!</p><p></p><p>At least until the next time we come across something without an explicit game mechanic.</p><p></p><p>It seems to me, though, like this is less about "narrative space" (a still undefined term, at least from where I sit) and more about explicit mechanics to reduce or remove GM judgement. Short of a "if it's not in the rules, it can't be done" structure, I don't think elimination of GM judgement is possible.</p><p></p><p>What I really don't want to end up with is a series of feats or class abilities like:</p><p></p><p> - "Soft Target" - as an arcane caster, you look weak, and the opponent is attracted to your weakness. Roll a character level check, modified by your CHA modifier, against a DC of 10 + target's hit dice + target's WIS modifier. If successful, target focuses his attacks on you, and will not attack other targets until you have fallen.</p><p></p><p> - "Taunt" - your roguish charms can be turned to antagonize an enemy. Roll a character level check, modified by your CHA modifier, against a DC of 10 + target's hit dice + target's WIS modifier. If successful, target focuses his attacks on you, and will not attack other targets until you have fallen.</p><p></p><p> - "Pick on someone your own size" - your obvious battle savvy attracts enemies to prove their valour against you. Roll a character level check, modified by your CHA modifier, against a DC of 10 + target's hit dice + target's WIS modifier. If successful, target focuses his attacks on you, and will not attack other targets until you have fallen.</p><p></p><p> - "Holier than thou" - your confidence and faith can be used to antagonize an enemy. Roll a character level check, modified by your CHA modifier, against a DC of 10 + target's hit dice + target's WIS modifier. If successful, target focuses his attacks on you, and will not attack other targets until you have fallen.</p><p></p><p>So everyone can do the exact same thing with the exact same mechanic, painted up to look a little bit different for each class, but everyone gets precisely the same abilities. On the plus side (for the publisher), we get to pad the books considerably, so we can charge more $$ for the same material.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6153018, member: 6681948"] I suspect getting any answers we can agree on needs to start with agreeing on the question. What do we want that fighter to be able to do? If it's just "attract the attention of the monster so it attacks him", then we have several options for mechanics that will cause the monster to make one decision instead of another, and we can select from, say, a straight characteristic roll, a racial ability, a class feature, a skill (or use of an existing skill), a feat (whether with the existing feat structure or a structure that requires some choices be made from specific feat types), some other new mechanic and/or a combination (maybe it's a straight characteristic roll which some races get a bonus or penalty to, some classes get to use a diferent characteristic, and a feat can improve or modify). Now we have a fixed, RAW mechanic for this ability, and it is no eonger decided by the player indicating what he wants to do and the GM ruling on whether it works, or how we will determine success or failure. Assuming that everyone agrees on what the RAW for this new mechanic means, and that it is a reasonable simulation of the desired ability, and that the character who did not devote the appropriate character resources to that ability can't do it (or just isn't as good at it if everone can do it), and that it is at least available to all characters who should be able to do that, then we have solved the problem - YAY! At least until the next time we come across something without an explicit game mechanic. It seems to me, though, like this is less about "narrative space" (a still undefined term, at least from where I sit) and more about explicit mechanics to reduce or remove GM judgement. Short of a "if it's not in the rules, it can't be done" structure, I don't think elimination of GM judgement is possible. What I really don't want to end up with is a series of feats or class abilities like: - "Soft Target" - as an arcane caster, you look weak, and the opponent is attracted to your weakness. Roll a character level check, modified by your CHA modifier, against a DC of 10 + target's hit dice + target's WIS modifier. If successful, target focuses his attacks on you, and will not attack other targets until you have fallen. - "Taunt" - your roguish charms can be turned to antagonize an enemy. Roll a character level check, modified by your CHA modifier, against a DC of 10 + target's hit dice + target's WIS modifier. If successful, target focuses his attacks on you, and will not attack other targets until you have fallen. - "Pick on someone your own size" - your obvious battle savvy attracts enemies to prove their valour against you. Roll a character level check, modified by your CHA modifier, against a DC of 10 + target's hit dice + target's WIS modifier. If successful, target focuses his attacks on you, and will not attack other targets until you have fallen. - "Holier than thou" - your confidence and faith can be used to antagonize an enemy. Roll a character level check, modified by your CHA modifier, against a DC of 10 + target's hit dice + target's WIS modifier. If successful, target focuses his attacks on you, and will not attack other targets until you have fallen. So everyone can do the exact same thing with the exact same mechanic, painted up to look a little bit different for each class, but everyone gets precisely the same abilities. On the plus side (for the publisher), we get to pad the books considerably, so we can charge more $$ for the same material. [/QUOTE]
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