Natural Attacks and grappling

[Stalker0]

A creature has a BAB of +6/1 and has 2 claws, a bite, and a tail attack as its natural weapons.

How many grapple attempts can it deal. 2 for the BAB, or 4 for the natural attacks.

How much damage does each deal, is it the first natural attack listed, can it be any of them, etc.

 

[hanniball]

A creature attacking with it's natural attacks may attempt a grapple check for each natural attack it would receive (4 in your case). The damage dealt would be related to which natural weapon you're using on each particular check.

Hope that helps.

Either way...just my 2 cp

 

[Hypersmurf]

A creature attacking with it's natural attacks may attempt a grapple check for each natural attack it would receive (4 in your case). The damage dealt would be related to which natural weapon you're using on each particular check.

If you're using grapple checks (to 'Damage your Opponent'), your number of grapple checks are based on BAB, and your damage is equivalent to an unarmed strike, not a natural weapon (unless you have Improved Grapple or Constrict).

If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.

and

While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a –4 penalty on your grapple check.

If you wish to use your natural weapons, you must use the 'Attack Your Opponent' option, which uses an attack roll at -4 vs opponent's AC, not a grapple check... and bear in mind that 'You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons.'

Also remember that 'Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons.'... so as well as not being able to attack with two weapons, you also can't attack with the same natural weapon more than once...

-Hyp.

 

[Stalker0]

But can't a creature substitute their natural attack damage for their unarmed damage? I believe a monk can do this can he not, or is that just a special ability of monks?>

 

[Sejs]

But can't a creature substitute their natural attack damage for their unarmed damage? I believe a monk can do this can he not, or is that just a special ability of monks?

Kinda-sorta. Works like so:

There are two different options one can take while in a grapple (okay, really there are several, but these are the two pertinent ones).

One option is Damage An Opponent - you make an opposed grapple check and if successful you deal damage equal to that you'd deal with an unarmed strike. If you had Weapon Specialization (Grapple) this is where you'd apply that bonus. As monks deal more damage with their unarmed strikes, they deal more damage when using this option (and can deal lethal damage without taking the normal -4 penalty to their grapple check).

The other option is Attack Your Opponent - you can attack your opponent with a light weapon, unarmed strike, or natural weapon(s) using your normal attack routine, but any attack in this fashion suffers a -4 penalty to hit. However, you do not need to win a grapple check in order to make these attacks. If you had Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike) and chose to attack in this fashion, this is where that bonus would apply (as opposed to WS-Grapple, above).

So the option breakdown for the creature you'd mentioned (+6/+1 BAB, claw/claw/bite/tail nats) would look like so, assuming they're making a full attack:

Option A) Wrassle. Use the Damage Your Opponent option to make two grapple checks (one at 6 + str mod + other mods, and the other at 1 + str mod + other mods) to deal damage equal to their unarmed strike if successful.

Option B) Attack. Assuming the creature doesn't have any manufactured weapons handy and doesn't want to attack with unarmed strikes due to their natural weapons being superior, you make a full attack as normal for the creature's natural attack routine. Each attack also suffers an additional -4 to hit. Their primary natural weapon would be at -4, and each secondary natural weapon would be at -9, assuming they don't have the Multiattack feat, in which case it'd be -4/-6.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Option B) Attack. Assuming the creature doesn't have any manufactured weapons handy and doesn't want to attack with unarmed strikes due to their natural weapons being superior, you make a full attack as normal for the creature's natural attack routine. Each attack also suffers an additional -4 to hit. Their primary natural weapon would be at -4, and each secondary natural weapon would be at -9, assuming they don't have the Multiattack feat, in which case it'd be -4/-6.

No. If you use the attack your opponent option, the only allowance for multiple attacks is via iterative attacks, and natural weapons do not use iterative attacks. There's no option for a full attack, though many of us allow it as a houserule (with the -4 penalty). With respect to the thread on the FAQ, the FAQ states:

How many attacks does a creature with multiple natural weapons get while it’s grappling? How many grapple checks can it make in a round?

Under normal circumstances, a creature can can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling (and it takes a –4 penalty on such attacks; PH 156). A grappling dire bear can attack with either a claw or its bite.

The rake special attack gives the creature “two additional claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe” (and which don’t take the normal –4 penalty to such attacks; MM
314).

A creature that chooses to make grapple checks in place of attacks—that is, to damage its opponent, escape from the grapple, move, pin its opponent, or use its opponent’s weapon—is allowed one grapple check for every attack that its base attack bonus would allow (even if it doesn’t normally make multiple attacks in this manner). These attacks deal damage as an unarmed strike made by a creature of that size (1d3 for Medium, 1d4 for Large, 1d6 for Huge, and so forth, plus its Strength modifier).

A creature with BAB +0 to +5 may make one grapple check in place of an attack, BAB +6 to +10 two, BAB +11 to +15 three, and BAB +16 to +20 four. The dire bear, for example, may make two grapple checks in place of attacks, thanks to its base attack bonus of +9: one using its full BAB and the second using its BAB –5.

 

[Sejs]

No. If you use the attack your opponent option, the only allowance for multiple attacks is via iterative attacks, and natural weapons do not use iterative attacks. There's no option for a full attack, though many of us allow it as a houserule (with the -4 penalty). With respect to the thread on the FAQ, the FAQ states:

Aha, good to know - thanks. I had been doing this wrong it seems.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Aha, good to know - thanks. I had been doing this wrong it seems.

"Wrong" depends upon your point of view. I personally think you've been doing it "right" even if it's not the RAW.