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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 7897236" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>Ah, but you aren't including the entire picture, are you?</p><p></p><p>Even though unarmed strikes (not "attacks", by the way) are not considered weapons, you can use them to make melee weapon attacks. That is not where the confusion lies IMO once you are presented with the statement.</p><p></p><p>Your point is well taken. Sooner or later people will be told of the rule as intended. Many people are fine with that, but others are miffed. Why the change? What is wrong with the other way? 5E is about natural language and yet the language is confusing for some players, especially newbies.</p><p></p><p>To that point, the confusion comes with features where you make a melee weapon attack but cannot use that feature with unarmed strikes.</p><p></p><p>For example, <em>Divine Smite</em>:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Now. I want to make an unarmed strike as a melee weapon attack, which is allowed. I want to use my divine smite when I hit. Can I? The text says I deal radiant damage in addition to the weapon's damage. Well, I didn't use a weapon so I gain no damage from that, but I still get the radiant damage. Oh, and since an unarmed strike does 1 + STR, I get that, too.</p><p></p><p>Others argue since I didn't use a weapon, I can't use Divine Smite. Why not?</p><p></p><p>How about <em>Horde Breaker</em>:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Here, it very specifically states "when you make a weapon attack", so you must have a weapon and be attacking with that weapon. It is clear unarmed strikes do <em>not</em> work with Horde Breaker.</p><p></p><p>And examples, in both directions, continue. Some clear, some not. People ask why have the distinction? Because JC says so. Uh-huh... great call on his part. It isn't for game balance as I can see it, at least not given any argument anyone has made so far.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 7897236, member: 6987520"] Ah, but you aren't including the entire picture, are you? Even though unarmed strikes (not "attacks", by the way) are not considered weapons, you can use them to make melee weapon attacks. That is not where the confusion lies IMO once you are presented with the statement. Your point is well taken. Sooner or later people will be told of the rule as intended. Many people are fine with that, but others are miffed. Why the change? What is wrong with the other way? 5E is about natural language and yet the language is confusing for some players, especially newbies. To that point, the confusion comes with features where you make a melee weapon attack but cannot use that feature with unarmed strikes. For example, [I]Divine Smite[/I]: Now. I want to make an unarmed strike as a melee weapon attack, which is allowed. I want to use my divine smite when I hit. Can I? The text says I deal radiant damage in addition to the weapon's damage. Well, I didn't use a weapon so I gain no damage from that, but I still get the radiant damage. Oh, and since an unarmed strike does 1 + STR, I get that, too. Others argue since I didn't use a weapon, I can't use Divine Smite. Why not? How about [I]Horde Breaker[/I]: Here, it very specifically states "when you make a weapon attack", so you must have a weapon and be attacking with that weapon. It is clear unarmed strikes do [I]not[/I] work with Horde Breaker. And examples, in both directions, continue. Some clear, some not. People ask why have the distinction? Because JC says so. Uh-huh... great call on his part. It isn't for game balance as I can see it, at least not given any argument anyone has made so far. [/QUOTE]
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