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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7421421" data-attributes="member: 12731">Okay, so what is needed for 5th edition to support heroes fighting with their natural weapons (NW)?What I am envisioning is a fighter using his claws or horn or whatever NW instead of a weapon even at high levels.This requires us to make assumptions on the availability of magic weapons, since no high level hero will choose to make half damage against most level-appropriate creatures.Just for purposes of discussion, let's throw this out:Level 6: +1 weaponLevel 12: +2 weaponLevel 18: +3 weaponPlease don't get on a tangent where you rail against these values. They're just examples to illustrate a point.Okay, so what damage expressions do we aim for with the rules we haven't written yet? Let's focus on four common "configurations": the sword and board fighter Abe, the greataxe fighter Brute, the no-weapon monk Cybil, and the two-weapon rogue Durran. They all have the same tail spike or bite attack or whatever NW.Whether they use Str or Dex doesn't matter at this point. It is entirely reasonable to get a Str-only natural weapon and simply ask Durran to choose another race if they want to fight with natural weapons, or pick up a regular shortsword. It is entirely reasonable to get a Dex-only natural weapon and simply ask Brute to choose another race or pick up a regular greataxe. Level 1Abe: d8Brute: d12Cybil: d4Durran: d6 - needs to be able to make NW attacks as a bonus actionMy main point here is at this stage, most players are probably content their natural weapon is equal to other choices.At this stage, we might get away with making the NW a d6 weapon IF we allow for options that "unlock" the weapon at later stages.Level 6Abe: d10 and counts as magical (comparable to a +1 Longsword)Brute: 2d6 magical, and counts as a greatweapon (absolutely must be compatible with warrior feats)Cybil: d6 (no need to spell out magical)Durran: d8 magicalLevel 12Abe: d12 (comparable to a +2 Longsword)  Brute: 2d8Cybil: 1d10 (the reason we're comparing to a "+1 foot" and not a "+2 foot" like the others is because regular monks are probably limited to two +2 attacks and two +0 attacks)Durran: d10 (comparable to a +2 Shortsword)Level 18Abe: 2d6 (comparable to a +3 Longsword)Brute: 2d10Cybil: 2d6Durran: 2d6 (comparable to a +3 Rapier)To condense this down, we see that this doesn't really sprawl all over the place like I expected.Level 1: d6 is probably fineLevel 6: we could probably get away with "d6 for everybody except d12 for people with the Greatweapon Fighting feat"Level 12: we simply up the previous to "d10 for everybody except 2d8 for people with the Greatweapon Fighting feat"Level 18: we simply up the previous to "2d6 for everybody except 2d10 for people with the Greatweapon Fighting feat"It's not perfect, but it should be good enough for those players that really wish to use NWs. These players already realize they won't find "Flame Tongue Horns" or "Vorpal Bite", so they're probably already playing in a relatively low-magic campaign (or they have a generous DM that allows them to enchant their natural weapons). Either way, we're only gunning for transforming WotC's level of NW support of "abysmal" to "bearable".A progression of level 1-11: d6, level 12-17: d10 and level 18+: 2d6 is of course bumpy and ungainly, so let's smooth that out shall we, by adding d8 at level 6.</blockquote>

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